Developments in vaccines / drug safety

[Judas Maccabeus]

Is it possible this will have a positive effect by introducing a scapegoat to replace vaccines as the cause of autism for the conspiracy minded? It seems to me scaring people off taking Tylenol during pregnancy would have far fewer negative consequences than scaring them off vaccines.

High fevers during pregnancy are more dangerous to the fetus than acetaminophen.

And of all the pain and fever meds, acetaminophen is considered by far the safest for pregnant women. Aspirin, ibuprofen, naproxen, and other nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs are all considered more dangerous. Which is why acetaminophen is the drug of choice for fever in pregnant women.

So women suffering through fevers rather than taking acetaminophen to control them during pregnancy (or swapping out for other drugs) poses greater risk than acetaminophen itself.

so it could be the condition they are taking it for, rather than the drug itself .

[Soloist]

Not one of these official recommendations issued by Trump today (just hours ago) in an all-caps screed has any basis in science. Not one. It is mostly the laundering of false information.

If he can get the MMR split and they don’t have to reformulate it using fetal cells… I would be happy.
I don’t really think he has that authority though.

[R7ehr]

I don’t really think he has that authority though.

That doesn't stop Trump on other things.

[Ken]

Is it possible this will have a positive effect by introducing a scapegoat to replace vaccines as the cause of autism for the conspiracy minded? It seems to me scaring people off taking Tylenol during pregnancy would have far fewer negative consequences than scaring them off vaccines.

High fevers during pregnancy are more dangerous to the fetus than acetaminophen.

And of all the pain and fever meds, acetaminophen is considered by far the safest for pregnant women. Aspirin, ibuprofen, naproxen, and other nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs are all considered more dangerous. Which is why acetaminophen is the drug of choice for fever in pregnant women.

So women suffering through fevers rather than taking acetaminophen to control them during pregnancy (or swapping out for other drugs) poses greater risk than acetaminophen itself.

so it could be the condition they are taking it for, rather than the drug itself .

Most everyone who dies of sepsis is on antibiotics.

Does that mean antibiotics cause sepsis?

[JohnH]

No baby parts were chopped up and injected.

I consider sourcing material from stem cells to be using aborted baby parts - because that's what it is.

Is it valid to object to it on its abortion connection? Certainly. I can tell you that if you reduce your argument to drama and the antagonistic language you likely believe the other side is using, then you already gave up your moral position.

I don't think the other side is necessarily using "antagonoistic language"; I do believe in speaking plainly about the evils that actually go on.

Overall, I don't think trying to be "nice guys" has gotten plain people anywhere, and instead I see plain people as passively accepting some grievous evils like stem cell based therapies and IVF.

[Soloist]

No baby parts were chopped up and injected.

I consider sourcing material from stem cells to be using aborted baby parts - because that's what it is.

No one could question my stance against it, but I use exact language.

I do believe in speaking plainly about the evils that actually go on.

So do I, yet I don’t dip my hand intentionally into hostility.

Overall, I don't think trying to be "nice guys" has gotten plain people anywhere, and instead I see plain people as passively accepting some grievous evils like stem cell based therapies and IVF.

Yes, them accepting those things is lamentable, but I completely disagree with your approach and tactics.

When I convinced someone in the past on here, it wasn’t how hostile I talked, but how scientifically accurate my data and argument was, likely also the moral connection was not to be ignored.
I would hazard a guess, you would not be convinced by someone speaking the same way you do.

[Southerner]

There most certainly was. It would be convenient for many to forget, but I have not forgotten.

Now we hear many bemoaning that “faith is lost in vaccines”, along with threats that somehow our kids will be afflicted with terrible diseases. I am no longer interested in hearing attempts to persuade using fear.

Go ahead and quote anyone here saying you have to blindly accept it. Or quote a government official saying it.

- not allowed to meet for worship unless vaccinated

Is this true?

[Judas Maccabeus]

Go ahead and quote anyone here saying you have to blindly accept it. Or quote a government official saying it.

- not allowed to meet for worship unless vaccinated

Is this true?

Even the mayor of Baltimore did not propose that one (if he did the governor would have overruled him anyway).

[JohnH]

Is this true?

Much like prohibiting the unvaccinated from having a job, they never fully got away with it. It helped that certain Christian denominations were willing to file lawsuits in order to assert their right to worship again (and, to be clear, never stopped meeting in the first place, even when they were told it was illegal).

I attend an illegal church service myself back in 2020. I did not talk about it openly then, but there were quite a few people who would have said under no circumstances should we ever disobey the government like that.

[Southerner]

Is this true?

Much like prohibiting the unvaccinated from having a job, they never fully got away with it. It helped that certain Christian denominations were willing to file lawsuits in order to assert their right to worship again (and, to be clear, never stopped meeting in the first place, even when they were told it was illegal).

I attend an illegal church service myself back in 2020. I did not talk about it openly then, but there were quite a few people who would have said under no circumstances should we ever disobey the government like that.

So it's a false statement that "people were not allowed to assemble to worship unless vaccinated".