Developments in vaccines / drug safety

[Judas Maccabeus]

If this makes people more at ease, I think it's a good public policy.

Downside is it will increase cost, if patients are self-pay.

[Valerie]

Interesting stuff coming out today, including official FDA guidance now being to avoid Tylenol during pregnancy due to a potential higher risk of autism, including warning labels and guidance issued to doctors. It's good to see research now going on with real results and real action instead of just endless talk that "it's complex".

The other interesting development is splitting combo vaccines into separate ones - including MMR - and taking Hep. B off the infant schedule. I strongly support giving parents choice to not have to take combo vaccines, particularly when some of the are made with stem cells and others aren't. Parents should be able to choose which specific vaccines they want to take and not be forced to take lots of vaccines all at once.

Actually they are simply talking about not giving multiple injections in one visit. Same vaccines.

An example would be rotavirus and MMR vaccine in two separate shots in one visit, or polio and MMR and DPT in the same visit. To the uneducated this may seem like “too much” but each scenario is approved at at least the institutional level, if not higher.

They are doing more than that. They are trying to take some vaccines off the infant schedule or push them later. The OP mentioned Hep B.

The only purpose of doing that is to limit access. Because insurers won't necessarily pay for vaccines given outside the CDC schedule. So people who want to stick to the old science-based schedule will be forced to pay out-of-pocket. Poor kids on Medicaid won't have access at all. This is all being done by the clown show of incompetents that RFK Jr. has appointed to his vaccine advisory panels after firing everyone competent.

Some coastal states may establish their own schedules based on the AAP recommendations and since insurance is primarily state-regulated they may be able to keep the old schedules in place. But in red states, probably not.

If the othered were so “competent” then they weren’t solving some of the problems nor listening to the cries of the mothers that were pushing for answers to autism as for example two of the mothers who spoke today and the meditation- these cries for help they said were being ignored by previous admonitions. The autism numbers had increased drastically and thank the Lord President Trump is pushing for answers and solutions and he also cleared up misinformation about Medicaid cuts.

[Ken]

Actually they are simply talking about not giving multiple injections in one visit. Same vaccines.

An example would be rotavirus and MMR vaccine in two separate shots in one visit, or polio and MMR and DPT in the same visit. To the uneducated this may seem like “too much” but each scenario is approved at at least the institutional level, if not higher.

They are doing more than that. They are trying to take some vaccines off the infant schedule or push them later. The OP mentioned Hep B.

The only purpose of doing that is to limit access. Because insurers won't necessarily pay for vaccines given outside the CDC schedule. So people who want to stick to the old science-based schedule will be forced to pay out-of-pocket. Poor kids on Medicaid won't have access at all. This is all being done by the clown show of incompetents that RFK Jr. has appointed to his vaccine advisory panels after firing everyone competent.

Some coastal states may establish their own schedules based on the AAP recommendations and since insurance is primarily state-regulated they may be able to keep the old schedules in place. But in red states, probably not.

If the othered were so “competent” then they weren’t solving some of the problems nor listening to the cries of the mothers that were pushing for answers to autism as for example two of the mothers who spoke today and the meditation- these cries for help they said were being ignored by previous admonitions. The autism numbers had increased drastically and thank the Lord President Trump is pushing for answers and solutions and he also cleared up misinformation about Medicaid cuts.

Maybe you had a point on the other thread about the "indoctrination and brainwashing" happening in this country. The whole fraudulent vaccines cause autism nonsense being propagated from the very top of our government is a perfect illustration of brainwashing.

I also like how Trump inserted a new step in the scientific process: "gossip". Or in this case, false gossip as acetaminophen is widely available across Latin America including Cuba where it generally goes by the generic name Paracetamol.

[Valerie]

They are doing more than that. They are trying to take some vaccines off the infant schedule or push them later. The OP mentioned Hep B.

The only purpose of doing that is to limit access. Because insurers won't necessarily pay for vaccines given outside the CDC schedule. So people who want to stick to the old science-based schedule will be forced to pay out-of-pocket. Poor kids on Medicaid won't have access at all. This is all being done by the clown show of incompetents that RFK Jr. has appointed to his vaccine advisory panels after firing everyone competent.

Some coastal states may establish their own schedules based on the AAP recommendations and since insurance is primarily state-regulated they may be able to keep the old schedules in place. But in red states, probably not.

If the othered were so “competent” then they weren’t solving some of the problems nor listening to the cries of the mothers that were pushing for answers to autism as for example two of the mothers who spoke today and the meditation- these cries for help they said were being ignored by previous admonitions. The autism numbers had increased drastically and thank the Lord President Trump is pushing for answers and solutions and he also cleared up misinformation about Medicaid cuts.

Maybe you had a point on the other thread about the "indoctrination and brainwashing" happening in this country. The whole fraudulent vaccines cause autism nonsense being propagated from the very top of our government is a perfect illustration of brainwashing.

I also like how Trump inserted a new step in the scientific process: "gossip". Or in this case, false gossip as acetaminophen is widely available across Latin America including Cuba where it generally goes by the generic name Paracetamol.

Big difference in indoctrination in turning young learning minds to atheism, and to FINALLY at least try to get to the cause of autism.
We all have a choice of which “science” we agree with- perfect example was Covid. Not all of us bought the brainwashing going on during pandemic and there were other actual doctors and science that was brought out.

Come up with answers to autism Ken. Vaccines were only one of the things discussed today but the left will twist this I know. You cannot deny what we witness with autism.

[Ken]

Come up with answers to autism Ken. Vaccines were only one of the things discussed today but the left will twist this I know. You cannot deny what we witness with autism.

It isn't a left/right issue. It is a science versus lies issue. The vaccines cause autism nonsense is a long-ago debunked fraudulent study by a disgraced doctor who was stripped of his medical credentials for fraud and unethical behavior.

What science (and not the left) will tell you about autism today is several things. First that the rates are increasing for mainly two reasons:

The rate of diagnosis is increasing because the definition of autism has expanded and continued to expand. So that many children are being diagnosed today under expanded definitions of the syndrome that would have been in previous decades. Also childhood screening has greatly increased so more children are being screened. Severe autism (kids who are completely dysfunctional) is not increasing. I have students in my classes whose IEPs and 504 plans indicate that they are autistic but they are actually perfectly normal functioning socially and academically and show no actual sign of being autistic to my layman's eye. That would not have been the case two decades ago. Back then the only kids I had who were labeled autistic were virtually dysfunctional. Here is Johns Hopkins saying what I just said: https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2025/is-th ... m-epidemic

Second, autism is primarily genetic. About 80% of cases are attributed to genetics not outside influences. Mathematically, the 20% of cases that are not genetic cannot have caused the rise in cases you are referencing because human genetics doesn't change that fast in one or two generations. What has changed quickly is our expanding definition of the syndrome. Here is the UCLA school of medicine saying this: https://medschool.ucla.edu/news-article ... sm-genetic

Autism is hereditary and therefore does run in families. A majority (around 80%) of autism cases can be linked to inherited genetic mutations. The remaining cases likely stem from non-inherited mutations.

There’s no evidence that children can develop autism after early fetal development as a result of exposure to vaccines or postnatal toxins.

“Everything known to cause autism occurs during early brain development,” says Dr. Geschwind.

Finally, this is what the NYT's science and medicine reporter relays today about what the head of medical ethics at NYU school of medicine says about RFK Jr. and Trump's claims today about a so-called link between Tylenol and Autism:

[Valerie]

Come up with answers to autism Ken. Vaccines were only one of the things discussed today but the left will twist this I know. You cannot deny what we witness with autism.

It isn't a left/right issue. It is a science versus lies issue. The vaccines cause autism nonsense is a long-ago debunked fraudulent study by a disgraced doctor who was stripped of his medical credentials for fraud and unethical behavior.

What science (and not the left) will tell you about autism today is several things. First that the rates are increasing for mainly two reasons:

The rate of diagnosis is increasing because the definition of autism has expanded and continued to expand. So that many children are being diagnosed today under expanded definitions of the syndrome that would have been in previous decades. Also childhood screening has greatly increased so more children are being screened. Severe autism (kids who are completely dysfunctional) is not increasing. I have students in my classes whose IEPs and 504 plans indicate that they are autistic but they are actually perfectly normal functioning socially and academically and show no actual sign of being autistic to my layman's eye. That would not have been the case two decades ago. Back then the only kids I had who were labeled autistic were virtually dysfunctional. Here is Johns Hopkins saying what I just said: https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2025/is-th ... m-epidemic

Second, autism is primarily genetic. About 80% of cases are attributed to genetics not outside influences. Mathematically, the 20% of cases that are not genetic cannot have caused the rise in cases you are referencing because human genetics doesn't change that fast in one or two generations. What has changed quickly is our expanding definition of the syndrome. Here is the UCLA school of medicine saying this: https://medschool.ucla.edu/news-article ... sm-genetic

Finally, this is what the NYT's science and medicine reporter relays about what the head of medical ethics at NYU school of medicine says about RFK Jr. and Trump's claims today about a so-called link between Tylenol and Autism:

Well other doctors disagree and haven’t come up with answers so blah blah blah.

Our own doctor who is “Internal Medicine” and won awards laughs at our “supplement” results but a man with an argument is not at the mercy of a man with “experience”
Plus he had tried to prescribe antibiotics to us that have been “black boxed” for some stupid reason and I had to tell him do NOT prescribe those for us. We have found other science to be more reliable.

[Ken]

Well other doctors disagree and haven’t come up with answers so blah blah blah.

Our own doctor who is “Internal Medicine” and won awards laughs at our “supplement” results but a man with an argument is not at the mercy off a man with “experience”
Plus he had tried to prescribe antibiotics to us that have been “black boxed” for some stupid reason and I had to tell him do NOT prescribe those for us. We have found other science to be ore reliable.

Other doctors disagree about what?

• The so-called vaccine-autism link?
• The fact that increasing numbers are due primarily to expanded clinical definitions and increased screening?
• That autism is primarily an inherited genetic disease and not caused by post-natal factors?
• Or that there is no causal link between Tylenol and autism?

I'm perfectly willing to entertain a link between Tylenol and autism if that is where the evidence takes us. But we aren't there yet. There are also people who claim that increases in autism diagnosis are due to the prevalence of screen use by children compared to the past. And the fact that children spend vastly more time indoors than they used to in the past due to helicopter parenting and parents who don't let their kids pay outside anymore, walk or bike to school, etc. But again, the causal evidence isn't there for those hypotheses either.

I do find it curious that RFJ Jr. rolled out this Tylenol business exactly 5 months after he publicly stated that he was going to reveal the cause of autism in 5 months. It seems very forced. This was exactly 5 months ago in April: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj0z9nmzvdlo

US Health Secretary Robert F Kennedy Jr has pledged "a massive testing and research effort" to determine the cause of autism in five months.

Experts cautioned that finding the causes of autism spectrum disorder – a complex syndrome that has been studied for decades – will not be straightforward, and called the effort misguided and unrealistic.

Kennedy, who has promoted debunked theories suggesting autism is linked to vaccines, said during a cabinet meeting on Thursday that a US research effort will "involve hundreds of scientists from around the world."

"By September, we will know what has caused the autism epidemic and we'll be able to eliminate those exposures," Kennedy said.

hmmmm.....

[Valerie]

Well other doctors disagree and haven’t come up with answers so blah blah blah.

Our own doctor who is “Internal Medicine” and won awards laughs at our “supplement” results but a man with an argument is not at the mercy off a man with “experience”
Plus he had tried to prescribe antibiotics to us that have been “black boxed” for some stupid reason and I had to tell him do NOT prescribe those for us. We have found other science to be ore reliable.

Other doctors disagree about what?

• The so-called vaccine-autism link?
• The fact that increasing numbers are due primarily to expanded clinical definitions and increased screening?
• That autism is primarily an inherited genetic disease and not caused by post-natal factors?
• Or that there is no causal link between Tylenol and autism?

I'm perfectly willing to entertain a link between Tylenol and autism if that is where the evidence takes us. But we aren't there yet. There are also people who claim that increases in autism diagnosis are due to the prevalence of screen use by children compared to the past. And the fact that children spend vastly more time indoors than they used to in the past due to helicopter parenting and parents who don't let their kids pay outside anymore, walk or bike to school, etc. But again, the causal evidence isn't there for those hypotheses either.

I do find it curious that RFJ Jr. rolled out this Tylenol business exactly 5 months after he publicly stated that he was going to reveal the cause of autism in 5 months. It seems very forced. This was exactly 5 months ago in April: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj0z9nmzvdlo

US Health Secretary Robert F Kennedy Jr has pledged "a massive testing and research effort" to determine the cause of autism in five months.

Experts cautioned that finding the causes of autism spectrum disorder – a complex syndrome that has been studied for decades – will not be straightforward, and called the effort misguided and unrealistic.

Kennedy, who has promoted debunked theories suggesting autism is linked to vaccines, said during a cabinet meeting on Thursday that a US research effort will "involve hundreds of scientists from around the world."

"By September, we will know what has caused the autism epidemic and we'll be able to eliminate those exposures," Kennedy said.

hmmmm.....

Your opinion. Severe cases increased or just the broad spectrum including high functioning.
Perhaps others are jealous that we have an administration that actually cares and pushing for answers. Don’t take the entire broadcast out of context - if the problem is getting worse then come up with answers Ken.

[Ken]

Your opinion. Severe cases increased or just the broad spectrum including high functioning.

Perhaps others are jealous that we have an administration that actually cares and pushing for answers. Don’t take the entire broadcast out of context - if the problem is getting worse then come up with answers Ken.

My opinion is based on the consensus of autism experts and researchers whose conclusions I think I have accurately summarized.

I'm not an autism scientist or researcher so I'm not competent to come up with answers. My scientific training is in fisheries science and commercial fisheries management. But I can read what experts are saying and summarize it.

Like I said. I do see more kids walking into my classes with autism diagnosis. Almost all of them are perfectly functioning and I would not know that most of them would even have an autism diagnosis if I didn't have their confidential medical files and 504 plans. The last time I had a profoundly autistic and non-functioning child in my classroom was 2016. All he could do is sit in my science classroom with a para at his side and play with his toy dinosaurs and sometimes color in his dinosaur coloring books. And occasionally throw an out-of-control fit at some imagined provocation that would force me to clear the classroom.

But even the term "profound autism" is new and wasn't introduced until 2021. So it isn't really possible to directly compare rates today to those in the past by simply looking at data. Scientists have to try to reconstruct the old data and parse it using clues. And when they do so they find that the recent increases are largely in the newer mild categories of autism that in previous decades would not have even qualified as an autism diagnosis. Which also reflects my observations. I have about 150 students per year which isn't an enormous sample size. But it isn't that small either.

[Valerie]

Your opinion. Severe cases increased or just the broad spectrum including high functioning.

Perhaps others are jealous that we have an administration that actually cares and pushing for answers. Don’t take the entire broadcast out of context - if the problem is getting worse then come up with answers Ken.

My opinion is based on the consensus of autism experts and researchers whose conclusions I think I have accurately summarized.

I'm not an autism scientist or researcher so I'm not competent to come up with answers. My scientific training is in fisheries science and commercial fisheries management. But I can read what experts are saying and summarize it.

Like I said. I do see more kids walking into my classes with autism diagnosis. Almost all of them are perfectly functioning and I would not know that most of them would even have an autism diagnosis if I didn't have their confidential medical files and 504 plans. The last time I had a profoundly autistic and non-functioning child in my classroom was 2016. All he could do is sit in my science classroom with a para at his side and play with his toy dinosaurs and sometimes color in his dinosaur coloring books. And occasionally throw an out-of-control fit at some imagined provocation that would force me to clear the classroom.

But even the term "profound autism" is new and wasn't introduced until 2021. So it isn't really possible to directly compare rates today to those in the past by simply looking at data. Scientists have to try to reconstruct the old data and parse it using clues. And when they do so they find that the recent increases are largely in the newer mild categories of autism that in previous decades would not have even qualified as an autism diagnosis. Which also reflects my observations. I have about 150 students per year which isn't an enormous sample size. But it isn't that small either.

Severe autism children in our area go to special schools do they not have those in your area?