Charlie Kirk Shot

[ohio jones]

You think we will start to see roads renamed after him in the manner of Martin Luther King? On the one hand, that seems more of a liberal city thing to do, which won’t work in CK’s favor. But it will be interesting if the right comes up with something similar to the street naming to memorialize him.

I see similarities between the two in terms of activism and assassination. Time will tell if CK’s death accelerates his message or not.

Wife: Believe me, they are already trying that. I really think though that it seems pretty divisive to change existing road names for someone who has nothing to do with whatever city is doing it.

A quick glance at the headlines shows proposals for street renaming in Phoenix, Pensacola, Melbourne, and Hernando MS.

Around here we have several cities where Clinton Street is a major downtown artery, along with streets named for Washington, Jefferson, and other famous people from ~200 years ago. It won't be long (and maybe it's already happening) before people completely forget VP George and think it's named after POTUS Bill. They're not related, but it doesn't even require changing the street signs.

T1, George Clinton belonged to the Democratic-Republican party. Your uniparty idea is nothing new.

[JohnH]

One of the strangest things to witness in the present era is the radical protesters, etc being mostly old, white people, the same age as my parents. We had a local “no kings” rally that looked very similar to the line for Old Country Buffet.

In contrast Charlie Kirk had a positive message that seemed to reach millions of young people. Youth represent the future. We look to them for hope. But the elderly used to represent stability, a rock to lean on. It is very shocking to see so many of them abandon that role.

Part of what might make this look "strange" is the perception that the No Kings rally is "radical protestors". It was the same around me. A bunch of old conservatives holding signs bringing attention to creeping authoritarianism in the country they love and grew up in. It was pretty mild. If THAT is what is being perceived as a "radical" protest, this country is too far gone I'm afraid. That perception means, categorically, anyone who sees a problem with the Powers and Principalities of the country is a "radical".

My local protests had signs with foul language and very disrespectful language on them. Not something any Christian should ever be associated with.

I very much doubt they were “old conservatives” either. A good number of the signs proclaimed how important a right to abortion is (often using foul language).

[JohnH]

Since the killing, my wife has been seeing lots of Charlie's videos come across her social media and has been watching them and showing some of them to me. One that I watched was a discussion on IVF with a set of IVF twins that asked him about his position on the topic. My wife said that he talked with better moral clarity on the subject than a lot of Mennonites do, and after watching it, I could agree. I assume that I would agree with his position on many other social/moral issues.

I don't think that Anabaptists should take up his exact methods for taking our views to broader society, and obviously I don't think we should embrace conservative politics. But we should acknowledge that a lot of people at least engaged the topic of biblical morality because of his work. I think the work that Ernie is doing with college students is a better model of doing this same sort of thing.

Good things would be:

- Respecting your opponent even if you disagree with their views

- Not reacting back when your debate opponent is disrespectful / foul / obscene (such as the elderly protesters I mentioned earlier)

- Affirming the humanity and good faith of your opponents, unless they prove otherwise (eg attempting to assassinate you is bad faith; disagreeing with you is not)

- Being well-educated about that which you argue for

[Bootstrap]

If people hold a selectively positive picture of Charlie Kirk, but that image inspires a movement toward free speech, respectful conversation, and genuine debate rather than demonization, that would be a good outcome. If Turning Point elevates those values as its central virtues, and politicians on both sides use his death to promote them, that could serve the country well.

But others may want to take things in a very different direction. Kirk said and did many things, and his words can be used to justify more divisive paths too.

America is at a crossroads: culture war or mutual dialogue, hate or mutual respect. If Turning Point chooses to embody Kirk at his best, it could be a genuine force for good. If, instead, his death is used to fuel deeper conflict, it will only pour gasoline on the culture wars—and that would be a very bad thing.

[Bootstrap]

Wife: Believe me, they are already trying that. I really think though that it seems pretty divisive to change existing road names for someone who has nothing to do with whatever city is doing it.

Or suppose Trump renamed the Kennedy Center - the "John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts" - in honor of Charlie Kirk. Or replaced Martin Luther King Day with Charlie Kirk Day. Or renamed the Martin Luther King Jr. Memorial Library.

That kind of thing would be very divisive.

[JohnH]

If people hold a selectively positive picture of Charlie Kirk, but that image inspires a movement toward free speech, respectful conversation, and genuine debate rather than demonization, that would be a good outcome. If Turning Point elevates those values as its central virtues, and politicians on both sides use his death to promote them, that could serve the country well.

But others may want to take things in a very different direction. Kirk said and did many things, and his words can be used to justify more divisive paths too.

America is at a crossroads: culture war or mutual dialogue, hate or mutual respect. If Turning Point chooses to embody Kirk at his best, it could be a genuine force for good. If, instead, his death is used to fuel deeper conflict, it will only pour gasoline on the culture wars—and that would be a very bad thing.

At this point it’s unclear who will be running / controlling Turning Point, and people with different agendas are vying for it.

Some people want legislation passed to restrict freedom of speech in Charlie Kirk’s name.

Other people propose Charlie Kirk would never have wanted to see attempts to limit speech.

This is drifting into politics, but I’m concerned about calls in some quarters for essentially a Patriot Act / TSA for the first amendment.

[temporal1]

If people hold a selectively positive picture of Charlie Kirk, but that image inspires a movement toward free speech, respectful conversation, and genuine debate rather than demonization, that would be a good outcome. If Turning Point elevates those values as its central virtues, and politicians on both sides use his death to promote them, that could serve the country well.

But others may want to take things in a very different direction. Kirk said and did many things, and his words can be used to justify more divisive paths too.

America is at a crossroads: culture war or mutual dialogue, hate or mutual respect. If Turning Point chooses to embody Kirk at his best, it could be a genuine force for good. If, instead, his death is used to fuel deeper conflict, it will only pour gasoline on the culture wars—and that would be a very bad thing.

27 pages. There have been few references to Turning Point in this topic.

Personally, from what i’ve seen, the greatest focus “out there” has been on faith and Christianity, from every corner.
To me, that’s impressive.

Sure, i see politicians (and msm) attempting to hijack for partisan purposes, for+against.
They appear minority voices to me, praise God.

They don’t seem to be controlling “the narrative” right now. Praise God. At last. A respite.

As Christians, who wouldn’t want Jesus’ name to be what is remembered? That’s the point, isn’t it?

Street signs and labels are nothing to believers. “Don’t sweat the small stuff.”
A street sign or statue determines nothing. Distractions. The pyramids. Interesting relics.

Maybe TP will be discussed in politics at some point. It doesn’t seem important in this topic.

CK did not say he wanted to be remembered for TP. To his credit.

- - - - - - -

Wife: Believe me, they are already trying that. I really think though that it seems pretty divisive to change existing road names for someone who has nothing to do with whatever city is doing it.

Or suppose Trump renamed the Kennedy Center - the "John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts" - in honor of Charlie Kirk. Or replaced Martin Luther King Day with Charlie Kirk Day. Or renamed the Martin Luther King Jr. Memorial Library.

That kind of thing would be very divisive.

Speculation is often intentionally divisive, as well as wasted time.
“Speculation is the enemy of peace.” anonymous

[Bootstrap]

If people hold a selectively positive picture of Charlie Kirk, but that image inspires a movement toward free speech, respectful conversation, and genuine debate rather than demonization, that would be a good outcome. If Turning Point elevates those values as its central virtues, and politicians on both sides use his death to promote them, that could serve the country well.

But others may want to take things in a very different direction. Kirk said and did many things, and his words can be used to justify more divisive paths too.

America is at a crossroads: culture war or mutual dialogue, hate or mutual respect. If Turning Point chooses to embody Kirk at his best, it could be a genuine force for good. If, instead, his death is used to fuel deeper conflict, it will only pour gasoline on the culture wars—and that would be a very bad thing.

There have been few references to Turning Point in this topic.

But they have a great deal of power if they choose to use it. Particularly Erika.

America is definitely at a Turning Point.

[Valerie]

The front page of our newspaper yesterday had an article about a vigil held in Medina where we live. We had not known about it or we would’ve attended. The article in the paper was very positive and spoke of even our mayor given speeches and others, giving speeches. It sounded like a wonderful event, and it was announced that if there are protesters to be respectful of them. One speaker even talked about the Holy Spirit doing a work. Then a 22 year-old I know told us this morning he attended the vigil and he said there were about 3000 people that attended. I was very encouraged about that since I’ve had concerns about Medina‘s direction. He said it was the best thing he’s ever been to and they were a lot of young people and people asking about where a good church to go to in Medina is. He was so enthusiastic about what he witnessed at the vigil and it really touched my heart to hear all he had to share. I am sure Charlie Kirk would be so encouraged by what has taken place since his death. Brian is the same age as the murderer but is doing so much good & seems to have high hopes for change.

[temporal1]

If people hold a selectively positive picture of Charlie Kirk, but that image inspires a movement toward free speech, respectful conversation, and genuine debate rather than demonization, that would be a good outcome. If Turning Point elevates those values as its central virtues, and politicians on both sides use his death to promote them, that could serve the country well.

But others may want to take things in a very different direction. Kirk said and did many things, and his words can be used to justify more divisive paths too.

America is at a crossroads: culture war or mutual dialogue, hate or mutual respect. If Turning Point chooses to embody Kirk at his best, it could be a genuine force for good. If, instead, his death is used to fuel deeper conflict, it will only pour gasoline on the culture wars—and that would be a very bad thing.

There have been few references to Turning Point in this topic.

But they have a great deal of power if they choose to use it. Particularly Erika.

America is definitely at a Turning Point.

Erika’s name shows up 17 times in this topic. Worth reading.
i’m praying hard for the Holy Spirit to protect+guide her. Are you?