Prayers for the Catholic Church

[JayP]

You continue to also miss my point. You wanna spend time on “two miracles” be my guest.
And really, no references are persuasive when you mention that tired out hack of a monk that could not wait to marry a nun.
Want to make a list of who is responsible for killing large numbers of people, good old Martin is well up on the list.

Had he been born 100 years earlier or later we would not know his name

[JohnH]

The miracles attested seem like a blessing. It is a mystery to me how they happened and I don’t share some of the same doctrines, but I can be very glad for 2 people with healing from terrible diseases.

[JayP]

If you want some Saint fun check out St. Januarius, the patron saint of Naples. I was reminded because of his feast day
Anyway, he was beheaded around 305AD. They have a vial of his congealed blood, that usually liquifies three days a year.
By contrast, on a few occasions when the blood has NOT liquified on schedule, it usually foreshadows someth8ng bad (like WWII or Covid).

[Judas Maccabeus]

You continue to also miss my point. You wanna spend time on “two miracles” be my guest.
And really, no references are persuasive when you mention that tired out hack of a monk that could not wait to marry a nun.
Want to make a list of who is responsible for killing large numbers of people, good old Martin is well up on the list.

Had he been born 100 years earlier or later we would not know his name

As far as killing Anabaptists, the Lutherians are also rans behind the Catholics and the Reformed. Celibacy is one of the gravest errors of the Roman Catholic Church; it seems to have been the enabling factor behind the pedophile scandal here in my fair city. Note that the perpetrators were almost never married permanent Decons. And was surely behind the "shortage that propelled the push to retain these miserable specimens.

Martin did the right thing. The institution would be better off if the rest did likewise.

[JayP]

As usual you are wrong, even when right.
Celibacy is not the cause of the sex scandals, albeit it is part of what hides it.
Ask yourself, if you were not gay, and crashed a plane on an island would the lack of women cause you to turn homosexual?

Next, the RCC hideous sex scandals are NOT pediophila, oh, they are bad, but that is NOT the right word.
For the offenses are rarely directed at little girls.

The RCC scandal is it is a home for gay predators. And it stars at the top. Just look at the last two Popes.

[temporal1]

As usual you are wrong, even when right.
1) Celibacy is not the cause of the sex scandals, albeit it is part of what hides it.
Ask yourself, if you were not gay, and crashed a plane on an island would the lack of women cause you to turn homosexual?

2) Next, the RCC hideous sex scandals are NOT pediophila, oh, they are bad, but that is NOT the right word.
For the offenses are rarely directed at little girls.

3) The RCC scandal is it is a home for gay predators. And it stars at the top. Just look at the last two Popes.

Could you explain 2+3?

2) If i recall, the scandals included boys, girls, young adults, including young married women (maybe men)?
Not just in the U.S., principally reported and litigated in the U.S. Some priests had children in undeveloped countries, close to being secretly “married” with children, presumably exploiting local customs and poverty? i worried about victims in undeveloped countries, as these victims would have even less recourse in every way. (Catholics are not alone with such problems.)

Sin harms with a broad ripple effect. It doesn’t stay contained. It hurts innocents.
Some vulnerable adults are comparable with children wrt helplessness to defend themselves.
(i believe) rape is violence. When i was very young, rape was often confused as a form of love or affection, also, maybe thought to be beyond the abusers’ control. Eventually, rape was recognized as violence, i think correct.

3) i don’t understand.

.. prayers for the Catholic Church, and all struggling with sin, victims+predators.

[JohnH]

As usual you are wrong, even when right.
Celibacy is not the cause of the sex scandals, albeit it is part of what hides it.
Ask yourself, if you were not gay, and crashed a plane on an island would the lack of women cause you to turn homosexual?

Next, the RCC hideous sex scandals are NOT pediophila, oh, they are bad, but that is NOT the right word.
For the offenses are rarely directed at little girls.

The RCC scandal is it is a home for gay predators. And it stars at the top. Just look at the last two Popes.

The Anglican Church in Australia had a similar scandal… despite no rule of celibacy.

[Judas Maccabeus]

As usual you are wrong, even when right.
Celibacy is not the cause of the sex scandals, albeit it is part of what hides it.
Ask yourself, if you were not gay, and crashed a plane on an island would the lack of women cause you to turn homosexual?

Next, the RCC hideous sex scandals are NOT pediophila, oh, they are bad, but that is NOT the right word.
For the offenses are rarely directed at little girls.

The RCC scandal is it is a home for gay predators. And it stars at the top. Just look at the last two Popes.

Alas. The problem with celibacy is that it, for the most part, creates the acute shortage of priests, which causes them to try and “fix” or recycle people they should have sent walking years before. I would not contend that you are wrong in that most of the offenders are gay predators, but many went after young girls as well, and sometimes adolescents as well. Here in my fair city we have it all in black and white. Some of the things perpetrated against young girls is unspeakable.

It was always my analysis that boys were more frequently victimized because of easier access. But I, and many others may be wrong. Or it could be both.

[Ken]

As usual you are wrong, even when right.
Celibacy is not the cause of the sex scandals, albeit it is part of what hides it.
Ask yourself, if you were not gay, and crashed a plane on an island would the lack of women cause you to turn homosexual?

Next, the RCC hideous sex scandals are NOT pediophila, oh, they are bad, but that is NOT the right word.
For the offenses are rarely directed at little girls.

The RCC scandal is it is a home for gay predators. And it stars at the top. Just look at the last two Popes.

Alas. The problem with celibacy is that it, for the most part, creates the acute shortage of priests, which causes them to try and “fix” or recycle people they should have sent walking years before. I would not contend that you are wrong in that most of the offenders are gay predators, but many went after young girls as well, and sometimes adolescents as well. Here in my fair city we have it all in black and white. Some of the things perpetrated against young girls is unspeakable.

It was always my analysis that boys were more frequently victimized because of easier access. But I, and many others may be wrong. Or it could be both.

I think it is both.

For the past two millennia the priesthood has been an all male bastion which is logically going to be more attractive to gay men than straight men. Much more attractive. If you are a straight young man who is attracted to women then entering the priesthood is going to represent an enormous sacrifice compared to the normal life path of dating women, getting married, making a family, etc.

On the other hand, if you are a gay young man, you couldn't live an openly gay life until recently. At least not easily. However you could join the priesthood or an all-male religious order and surround yourself with other young men, some of whom no doubt share your sexuality. I expect gay priests probably recruited young men into the priesthood who they perceived to also be gay. Sexuality isn't that secret. So not only is public celibacy not a burden (you aren't interested in women and marriage anyway) but entering the priesthood puts you into a world of men, some of whom are no-doubt like-minded. As well as a position of authority and access to both boys and girls.

So both are probably true. The inherent structure of the priesthood (and monastic orders) naturally makes it much more attractive to gay men than straight men. And priests also have more access to boys than girls. Girls are more likely to be educated by nuns and have less direct contact with priests. Historically boys have also had more roles in church such as altar servers (altar boys), although today that is changing somewhat in some churches.

[temporal1]

P.12:

I do not think there is much question the Church will win this lawsuit. The compelling argument is that ONLY Clergy are named. The idea that a school nurse retains privileged conversation status or “therapist” who may well or even hold a medical degree yet the confessional alone is stripped of historical legal protections is a gross violation of Constitutional law.

Every religious person should object because this law is not about the Catholic Church, child abuse, or the seal of the confessional. It is a bare faced open attack on religious practices and an example that many on the left have no real belief in the Constitution.

It is far more than a slippery slope.

Oct 10 / NorthWest Catholic / Washington state will not force clergy to violate seal of confession
https://nwcatholic.org/news/kate-mcente ... confession

SEATTLE — The State of Washington will not force Catholic priests to violate the sacred seal of confession, according to a settlement announced Oct. 10.

“The governor, attorney general and all county prosecuting attorneys have agreed to a court order finding that the state law violates our free exercise and have agreed not to force priests into the impossible choice between obeying God or complying with the law,” the five bishops of Washington state said in a statement.

Seattle Archbishop Paul D. Etienne, Yakima Bishop Joseph J. Tyson, Spokane Bishop Thomas A. Daly and Seattle Auxiliary Bishops Eusebio Elizondo and Frank Schuster sued the state in May after Senate Bill 5375 was signed into law by Gov. Bob Ferguson. They said the law, which required clergy to report abuse and neglect shared in the confines of the confessional, violates the freedom of religion protections in the Constitution.

Clergy are already mandatory reporters — with the narrow exception for confession.

The lawsuit also noted that the clergy-penitent privilege is singled out in the law, but protections remained for lawyers and their clients.

The bishops also sought an injunction in federal court in June to keep the law from taking effect on July 27. They were granted that injunction by a federal judge on July 18.

The Catholic Church teaches that confession is confidential, and a priest is bound by sacred duty to never speak about what he hears during the sacrament of confession. Any priest who breaks the seal of confession is excommunicated.

If the state law had taken effect, priests who refused to break the seal of confession faced up to 364 days in jail, a $5,000 fine and potential civil liability.

“Washington was wise to walk away from this draconian law and allow Catholic clergy to continue ministering to the faithful,” said Mark Rienzi, president and CEO of Becket, a nonprofit, public-interest law firm dedicated to protecting the free expression of religious traditions that represented the bishops in the case. “This is a victory for religious freedom and for common sense. Priests should never be forced to make the impossible choice of betraying their sacred vows or going to jail.”

“It is a credit to the attorney general of Washington, the governor, and the archbishop and bishops that they were able to come together and find common ground under the First Amendment to protect religious liberty while seeking to eradicate the scourge of sexual abuse,” said Hiram Sasser, executive general counsel for First Liberty Institute, another nonprofit legal organization dedicated to religious liberty cases that represented the bishops. “I hope we can all learn from their noble examples.”

The Catholic Church in Washington has spent years strengthening its approach to protecting minors and vulnerable adults through its Safe Environment programs, background checks and reporting policies, a news release from Becket, the Washington State Catholic Conference and First Liberty Institute said.

In the Archdiocese of Seattle and the dioceses of Spokane and Yakima, priests and all Church personnel are required to report suspected abuse to law enforcement or child protection agencies. These policies cover diocesan parishes, schools and other ministries.

“The Church remains unwavering in its commitment to prevent abuse and protect the vulnerable,” the bishops said in their statement.

The Church originally supported Senate Bill 5375’s broader goal of strengthening protections for minors and asked only for a narrow exemption to protect the sacrament of confession, said Jean Hill, executive director of the Washington State Catholic Conference.

“Preventing abuse and upholding the sacred seal of confession are not mutually exclusive — we can and must do both,” Hill said. “We’re grateful the state ultimately recognized it can prevent abuse without forcing priests to violate their sacred vows.”