Incompatible beliefs

[Ernie]

I think that the difference lies between those whose confidence in their "salvation status" is focused on themselves, what they do, some conversion experience for which they have the date and place firmly burned into their memory - that kind of 'assurance' in contrast to a simple confidence in the ability of Jesus to save, and the desire & willingness of Jesus to save. He can, and he wants to. That is no self-assurance, it is Jesus-assurance.

This is an excellent explanation and distinction.

I've struggled with a lot of doubts and an oversensitive conscience at various points in my life and I finally found peace as I embraced Paul's testimony for myself. "For I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto Him, against that day!"

This verse has become one of my life mottos.

I'm banking my whole life and future on this verse being a reality.

[Neto]

I think that the difference lies between those whose confidence in their "salvation status" is focused on themselves, what they do, some conversion experience for which they have the date and place firmly burned into their memory - that kind of 'assurance' in contrast to a simple confidence in the ability of Jesus to save, and the desire & willingness of Jesus to save. He can, and he wants to. That is no self-assurance, it is Jesus-assurance.

This is an excellent explanation and distinction.

I've struggled with a lot of doubts and an oversensitive conscience at various points in my life and I finally found peace as I embraced Paul's testimony for myself. "For I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed unto Him, against that day!"

This verse has become one of my life mottos.

I'm banking my whole life and future on this verse being a reality.

Love that hymn as well.

[Bootstrap]

I appreciate the perspectives being shared here. For me, my greatest disappointment is that—whether plain or non-plain—many Mennonites are not especially good at immersing themselves deeply in Scripture and being truly vulnerable to it. In my humble opinion, this is the deeper issue behind a lot of the other concerns listed.

Too often, we also seem to make a hobby of discussing what is wrong with every other tradition, while spending much less time asking what God is calling us to, here and now, through his Word. It’s easier to debate doctrines, analyze church trends, look for rules or distinctive practices that set us apart, or critique others than to let the living voice of God pierce our hearts, reshape our desires, and call us to repentance and transformation.

I think the early Anabaptists did this very well. Their strength was not that they had all the answers or perfect structures, but that they let the Scriptures read them, shape them, and call them into costly obedience. On the two ends of today’s spectrum, we risk either treating Scripture as a catechism—using it “for support rather than illumination”—or subordinating it to social justice agendas. In both cases, we end up “honoring the prophets” without actually doing what was at the heart for them: letting God’s Word confront us, change us, and lead us into a life of radical faithfulness.

[JohnH]

Of course, when I crack open my Bible and read it, I see things that are gravely challenging. It’s obvious you can’t hold on to wealth and enter the kingdom of heaven. Yet my family has a lot of wealth. I personally don’t, but if your family is comfortably wealthy, then in reality you are too. Is Jesus pleased?

I see myself called to give to whomever asks and to forgive 70 times 7, yet I often have difficulty getting along with my earthly natural brothers. I try to be generous but sometimes am simply not generous.

The Bible sets up a high standard for truthfulness and honesty. How can I do this in this day and age? When discoursing with an LLM, one often crafts half truths to get it do what you want. I had to do this with an Adobe chat bot to access their support to get them to fix a problem with the billing for my Adobe plan. Yet the chat bot was also relaying what I was saying to a real person. I often don’t know how to live up the ideals I see in the New Testament.

[Southerner]

I appreciate the perspectives being shared here. For me, my greatest disappointment is that—whether plain or non-plain—many Mennonites are not especially good at immersing themselves deeply in Scripture and being truly vulnerable to it. In my humble opinion, this is the deeper issue behind a lot of the other concerns listed.

Too often, we also seem to make a hobby of discussing what is wrong with every other tradition, while spending much less time asking what God is calling us to, here and now, through his Word. It’s easier to debate doctrines, analyze church trends, look for rules or distinctive practices that set us apart, or critique others than to let the living voice of God pierce our hearts, reshape our desires, and call us to repentance and transformation.

..."let the living voice of God pierce our hearts"

[Southerner]

I appreciate the perspectives being shared here. For me, my greatest disappointment is that—whether plain or non-plain—many Mennonites are not especially good at immersing themselves deeply in Scripture and being truly vulnerable to it. In my humble opinion, this is the deeper issue behind a lot of the other concerns listed.

In what way are you "vulnerable" to Scripture that many Mennonites are not? And an "humble opinion" it is not!

[Bootstrap]

I appreciate the perspectives being shared here. For me, my greatest disappointment is that—whether plain or non-plain—many Mennonites are not especially good at immersing themselves deeply in Scripture and being truly vulnerable to it. In my humble opinion, this is the deeper issue behind a lot of the other concerns listed.

In what way are you "vulnerable" to Scripture that many Mennonites are not? And an "humble opinion" it is not!

I want to be clear about two things:

1. Nothing in my post says I am the “good guy” or that I am the example everyone else should follow.
2. Really, it’s discouraging if we can’t talk about what the Bible calls us to without someone taking offense. I wasn’t naming names, nor trying to set up “good guys” vs. “bad guys.”

My point was simply that all of us can be challenged to go deeper into Scripture and let it shape us more fully. That includes me. If my words came across more personally than I intended, I’d like to understand why.

What does “being vulnerable to Scripture” looks like for you? How do you experience that in your own walk? How can we call each other on to do this well?

[Southerner]

I appreciate the perspectives being shared here. For me, my greatest disappointment is that—whether plain or non-plain—many Mennonites are not especially good at immersing themselves deeply in Scripture and being truly vulnerable to it. In my humble opinion, this is the deeper issue behind a lot of the other concerns listed.

In what way are you "vulnerable" to Scripture that many Mennonites are not? And an "humble opinion" it is not!

I want to be clear about two things:

1. Nothing in my post says I am the “good guy” or that I am the example everyone else should follow.
2. Really, it’s discouraging if we can’t talk about what the Bible calls us to without someone taking offense. I wasn’t naming names, nor trying to set up “good guys” vs. “bad guys.”

My point was simply that all of us can be challenged to go deeper into Scripture and let it shape us more fully. That includes me. If my words came across more personally than I intended, I’d like to understand why.

What does “being vulnerable to Scripture” looks like for you? How do you experience that in your own walk? How can we call each other on to do this well?

You passed a judgement and said, "Many Mennonites are not good at immersing themselves deeply in Scripture." I find the statement very prideful.

[Bootstrap]

You passed a judgement and said, "Many Mennonites are not good at immersing themselves deeply in Scripture." I find the statement very prideful.

Do you think Mennonites generally immerse themselves deeply in Scripture, or not? You don't seem to be taking a stand on that. If my statement is true, is it prideful to point it out, or is it the kind of thing we should be thinking about? If not, could you please point out where I got it wrong?

We can speculate about each other’s motives until the cows come home, but that won’t help us understand Scripture or each other any better. I’d really like to stay with the question itself.