Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[Soloist]

Hypothetically, if Russia offered a neutral zone, asked for acknowledgement of present territory control, allowed for NATO “peace keepers” and a peace treaty but no membership in NATO, will or should Ukraine accept?

[temporal1]

Hypothetically, if Russia offered a neutral zone, asked for acknowledgement of present territory control, allowed for NATO “peace keepers” and a peace treaty but no membership in NATO, will or should Ukraine accept?

No trust.
Both sides have now violated their words multiple times. Shake hands, bomb away.

Because neither side will lay down their arms.

[Szdfan]

We were told the war would end. was it on inauguration day?
"Russian attacks on Ukraine double since Trump inauguration" Instead the opposite is happening. Why?

Trump can be overly trusting and naive.
imho, in this case about Putin, Z, and evil in U.S. left-west.

Trump was never going to deliver on that promise. He had no way to deliver it. He’s weak.

[JohnH]

We were told the war would end. was it on inauguration day?
"Russian attacks on Ukraine double since Trump inauguration" Instead the opposite is happening. Why?

Trump can be overly trusting and naive.
imho, in this case about Putin, Z, and evil in U.S. left-west.

Trump was never going to deliver on that promise. He had no way to deliver it. He’s weak.

Is there a reason these remarks aren't in the Politics subforum?

[Szdfan]

Trump can be overly trusting and naive.
imho, in this case about Putin, Z, and evil in U.S. left-west.

Trump was never going to deliver on that promise. He had no way to deliver it. He’s weak.

Is there a reason these remarks aren't in the Politics subforum?

Mine is just keeping the other political comments here company.

[JohnH]

It was addressed at all 3 of you. Commentary about Trump and Russia seems rather obviously political.

[Ken]

Hypothetically, if Russia offered a neutral zone, asked for acknowledgement of present territory control, allowed for NATO “peace keepers” and a peace treaty but no membership in NATO, will or should Ukraine accept?

There is no sign Russia is seeking an end to the war. There was an interesting article a couple months ago by a Russian journalist about how Putin has become addicted to war because it has allowed him to exert control over all aspects of Russian society. There is nothing like war to facilitate the suppression of internal dissent. That war has made Putin far more powerful inside Russia. If you are Putin or his inner circle, what's not to like? https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/18/opin ... =url-share

People hoping for peace are likely to be disappointed. Despite President Vladimir Putin of Russia signaling readiness for a deal, nothing could be further from the truth. I’ve been talking to Kremlin insiders who have known Mr. Putin for years and they all agreed: Mr. Putin has come to love war and can no longer imagine a future without it. Instead, his plan is to drive a wedge between Ukraine and the United States, take advantage of Mr. Trump’s apparent friendliness to improve relations with America and keep the war machine running.

. . . .

More important, though, is that the war has become Mr. Putin’s ultimate tool for controlling the country and ensuring no one steps out of line. It has been brutally wielded to drive out dissenting voices from the country, turning a whole generation of opponents into exiles. The war serves as a perfect gag order on those in the system, too. As long as it continues, even the so-called systemic liberals — the pro-Western faction within Russia’s government that holds key positions in the economy and business world — will remain silent. Many of them are clearly unhappy. But while the war drags on, they will not speak out.

The dangers of peace, on the other hand, are plain. It would return a more than a million-strong army home and a rung of high-ranking veterans to civilian life. What will they do? A warning signal was sent last month when one of Russia’s most prominent war veterans and the president’s envoy to the Urals district, Artem Zhoga, dared to criticize a possible minerals deal with America floated by Mr. Putin. “These resources are part of a strategic reserve, and I urge my colleagues in the regions to ensure their preservation in the interests of the state,” Mr. Zhoga said. Notably, he did not mention the president.

For Mr. Putin, it was an ominous intervention. Shut out from key government positions — not a single war veteran has been placed in a senior leadership role, even after extensive reshuffling at the defense ministry — veterans are a potential pool of resentment. While the war continues, they cannot afford to step out of line. Were peace to come, they may well follow the footsteps of the former Wagner Group leader Yevgeny Prigozhin in railing against Mr. Putin and his regime. Mr. Putin, of course, cannot allow that to happen. To prevent a veterans’ revolt, he must not end the war. His political survival depends on it.

As does the economy, which has been fully reshaped to serve the war effort. The government has been restructured to follow a Stalinist principle: “Everything for the front, everything for victory.” The state apparatus now operates in service of the military-industrial complex. The most influential figure in Russia’s economy is Sergey Chemezov, Mr. Putin’s longtime colleague from the K.G.B. who now heads Rostec, the state-owned military conglomerate. That tells you how entwined political power, the war and the economy have become.

Arguably a similar phenomenon is driving the war in Gaza. We are long past the point of military objectives in Gaza. But Netanyahu needs the war to maintain his governing coalition and stay out of jail. And so it continues on and on.

[Soloist]

Hypothetically, if Russia offered a neutral zone, asked for acknowledgement of present territory control, allowed for NATO “peace keepers” and a peace treaty but no membership in NATO, will or should Ukraine accept?

There is no sign Russia is seeking an end to the war. There was an interesting article a couple months ago by a Russian journalist about how Putin has become addicted to war because it has allowed him to exert control over all aspects of Russian society. There is nothing like war to facilitate the suppression of internal dissent. That war has made Putin far more powerful inside Russia. If you are Putin or his inner circle, what's not to like?

Ken, this was a hypothetical question of a hypothetical scenario. Do you care to actually respond to it?

[Ken]

Hypothetically, if Russia offered a neutral zone, asked for acknowledgement of present territory control, allowed for NATO “peace keepers” and a peace treaty but no membership in NATO, will or should Ukraine accept?

There is no sign Russia is seeking an end to the war. There was an interesting article a couple months ago by a Russian journalist about how Putin has become addicted to war because it has allowed him to exert control over all aspects of Russian society. There is nothing like war to facilitate the suppression of internal dissent. That war has made Putin far more powerful inside Russia. If you are Putin or his inner circle, what's not to like?

Ken, this was a hypothetical question of a hypothetical scenario. Do you care to actually respond to it?

Since it is all hypothetical and not based on any existing reality I would say that Ukraine should only agree to any peace agreements with Russia that do not depend on good faith on the part of Russia to maintain Ukrainian security and independence. Since Russia has proven incapable of living up to any previous agreement. As with any agreement, the devil is in the details. Any agreement that includes any demobilization or disarmament on the part of Ukraine should include an equal degree of demobilization and disarmament on the part of Russia. Including the dismantling and scrapping of missile and drone weapons systems designed to strike from long distances.

[Szdfan]

There is no sign Russia is seeking an end to the war. There was an interesting article a couple months ago by a Russian journalist about how Putin has become addicted to war because it has allowed him to exert control over all aspects of Russian society. There is nothing like war to facilitate the suppression of internal dissent. That war has made Putin far more powerful inside Russia. If you are Putin or his inner circle, what's not to like?

Ken, this was a hypothetical question of a hypothetical scenario. Do you care to actually respond to it?

Since it is all hypothetical and not based on any existing reality I would say that Ukraine should only agree to any peace agreements with Russia that do not depend on good faith on the part of Russia to maintain Ukrainian security and independence. Since Russia has proven incapable of living up to any previous agreement. As with any agreement, the devil is in the details. Any agreement that includes any demobilization or disarmament on the part of Ukraine should include an equal degree of demobilization and disarmament on the part of Russia. Including the dismantling and scrapping of missile and drone weapons systems designed to strike from long distances.

I think that’s right. Ukraine is never going to accept a deal without security guarantees. Unless things really change, Russia is never going to accept NATO peacekeepers in Ukraine.