What are your thoughts re Hegelian Dialectic & CRT in the Church?

[JohnH]

We are just getting one side here and their lawsuit against David Platt was dismissed.

Great to know we can trust the courts to decide who should be running a church.

The anti David Platt people who made the film you pointed us to are the ones who sued.

Take it up with them if you think lawsuits are unseemly. I'm just pointing out that the court didn't think their arguments had merit.

Courts often get things wrong.

[temporal1]

P.46

.. In my almost 20 years of teaching by FAR the most engaged parents I have ever encountered were professional Black moms back in Texas. These are women who are often retired army officers working in corporate or professional jobs (Fort Hood was next door) or otherwise high achieving professional women. They would show up during open house first week of school with their business cards and say "so and so is my son (or daughter). If you have any issues at all with my child academically or in terms of discipline, PLEASE PLEASE contact me first and give us a chance to deal with it before you put them into the school disciplinary system. At school events they would always seek me out to say hi and ask how their child was doing. Just super engaged in a supportive way. It was frankly awesome because if I was having trouble with any of their kids all I needed to do was write a draft email home explaining what difficulty I was having, call the student up to my desk to show them the draft email, and say "If you don't shape up this email goes out to your mom at the end of the period". They would be on their best behavior for the rest of the week for fear of mom's wrath.

So stereotypes are just that. Stereotypes. Even if they hold true generally there are always plenty of exceptions.

Interesting wrt MILITARY SERVICE.
For years we lived near a military base, i noticed some things, too.

The military is a unique+prime example of taking “everyone” from all walks of life, “reeducating” them, forcing them to not only live together in close quarters, but to work together, eat together, live together, 24-7. They are forced to respect one another and abide by the same rules. Many young people who grew up with nothing, no money, no guidance, no boundaries, receive attention and oversight as never before. In times of draft, i understand, it’s much more mixed, draftees come from all households, exceptions for COs and those with clout.

What we saw in the surrounding community was The Most+Best Integrated neighborhoods i’ve seen anywhere, every neighborhood, regardless whether wealth or poverty. Lots of retired military. No ghetto areas, no slum-like areas, to repeat, regardless if homes were $20,000 or $500,000+.

There is no INHERENT reason $20,000 neighborhoods can’t be clean and crime-free.
According to scriptures, the wealthy have the harder path. A recurring message.

So. If anyone wants to know how to get all people living together constructively without killing each other - the military has a tested and proven model.

At least it did. i’m not sure what’s happened in recent years. i would expect a lot is the same. i don’t know.

Soloist+wife will probably respond with first-person military experience.
My experience is first-person, as a civilian neighbor.

i found it overall interesting.
The outer civilian community wasn’t large, maybe 15,000, one thing, it had a remarkable variety of churches, and other places of worship. Again, a sign of remarkable integration of cultures existing WITH each other. As required by the military.
Behave yourself - or else! Landlords, car dealers, etc., were happy for their business, again, pay your bills - or else!

Works like charm, as they say.

In my view, similar results are possible without resorting to the military.
RESPONSIBLE PARENTS, traditional homes, and churches, are key factors. It takes work.

Infants aren’t born civilized. It requires YEARS of responsible socializing. Outside of that, the military “has ways”.

The military doesn’t take everyone. They take many.

It’s not surprising “former military” produce students prepared and ready for school.

[JohnH]

Er… I’m not sure I’d describe military bases as “crime free”

Going back to the topic of Russia, the reports of conditions and conduct in military barracks are appalling. Sexual assaults are the norm.

[joshuabgood]

Great to know we can trust the courts to decide who should be running a church.

The anti David Platt people who made the film you pointed us to are the ones who sued.

Take it up with them if you think lawsuits are unseemly. I'm just pointing out that the court didn't think their arguments had merit.

Courts often get things wrong.

Now that the suits have been dismissed, the elders at the church released documentation that effectively and clearly undermines the plaintiffs and the "documentary" and selective editing that they put together. My advice is for anyone who wonders "what happened" to actually read that document.

[joshuabgood]

Here is the actual 35 page report from the elder board of McClean Bible Church.

https://mcleanbible.org/wp-content/uplo ... 1-2024.pdf

And for those who want a quick read, here is a synopsis...

https://ministrywatch.com/mclean-bible- ... tt-others/

[JohnH]

The anti David Platt people who made the film you pointed us to are the ones who sued.

Take it up with them if you think lawsuits are unseemly. I'm just pointing out that the court didn't think their arguments had merit.

Courts often get things wrong.

Now that the suits have been dismissed, the elders at the church released documentation that effectively and clearly undermines the plaintiffs and the "documentary" and selective editing that they put together. My advice is for anyone who wonders "what happened" to actually read that document.

You mean from the new “elders” that David Platt hand picked to replace the existing elders, and for which he threw out the existing membership so they’d get elected?

Do you have any comments on Platt installing a new constitution which removed the membership’s ability to replace the elder board?

Any comment on him hiring first a church consultant / lawyer and then later “upgrading” him to Executive Pastor (whatever that is)?

[joshuabgood]

Courts often get things wrong.

Now that the suits have been dismissed, the elders at the church released documentation that effectively and clearly undermines the plaintiffs and the "documentary" and selective editing that they put together. My advice is for anyone who wonders "what happened" to actually read that document.

You mean from the new “elders” that David Platt hand picked to replace the existing elders, and for which he threw out the existing membership so they’d get elected?

Do you have any comments on Platt installing a new constitution which removed the membership’s ability to replace the elder board?

Any comment on him hiring first a church consultant / lawyer and then later “upgrading” him to Executive Pastor (whatever that is)?

Did you read the document? The vast majority of elders always were supportive of David Platt. There was a very small group of conflict entrepreneurs who decided David was "too woke" and they launched all kinds of discord and then sued him at the law multiple times. The suits were dismissed as not having any merit and the church was/is more full than ever.

In the emails, Jeremiah Burke addresses the MBC leadership as “oddballs,” “blockheads,” and “Board of Trolls.”

“…I am writing to offer my assistance, and that of a small group of people inside and outside of the church, for Christmas Eve services. As is widely apparent, you lack the brainpower to run a church, much less a sufficient volunteer base to put on the circus in three days,” an email from Burke begins.

The primary agitator openly called the elders and board "blockheads" and "trolls" etc etc. It is pretty obvious if you read the document what went on. It was pretty juvenile actually.

Despite the turmoil, the report notes that church membership has grown by over 1,400 people since 2020, financial giving remains robust, and votes on leadership appointments have consistently reflected broad support for Platt and other elders, sometimes by margins of over 90%.

The main problem was, Platt wasn't MAGA enough for some folks.

[Ken]

Courts often get things wrong.

Now that the suits have been dismissed, the elders at the church released documentation that effectively and clearly undermines the plaintiffs and the "documentary" and selective editing that they put together. My advice is for anyone who wonders "what happened" to actually read that document.

You mean from the new “elders” that David Platt hand picked to replace the existing elders, and for which he threw out the existing membership so they’d get elected?

Do you have any comments on Platt installing a new constitution which removed the membership’s ability to replace the elder board?

Any comment on him hiring first a church consultant / lawyer and then later “upgrading” him to Executive Pastor (whatever that is)?

No comments at all except to underscore that none of this infighting within a conservative evangelical megachurch in suburban Virginia has anything to do with CRT.

[Ken]

Er… I’m not sure I’d describe military bases as “crime free”

Going back to the topic of Russia, the reports of conditions and conduct in military barracks are appalling. Sexual assaults are the norm.

You do realize that countries have their own separate military traditions? Why are you trying to deflect the conversation to Russia?

Temp is absolutely correct. And if we zoom in on education it turns out that Black students attending DOD schools on military bases outperform their counterparts from civilian families and have narrowed and all but eliminated the performance gap with their White counterparts. And students of all races attending DOD schools outperform their civilian counterparts from the same socio-economic class. In other words, the DOD has managed to break the national pattern in which both Black students and students from poor families underperform their wealthier counterparts. That should be applauded and the lessons replicated elsewhere.

[temporal1]

Er… I’m not sure I’d describe military bases as “crime free”

did i say that?
to be sure, they aren’t, BUT, there is far less crime, AND it’s dealt with quickly+evenly.
That’s it. One set of rules for everyone, ENFORCED.

i’m NOT trying to glamorize or white-wash militaries. just describing facts as i’ve witnessed them IRL.

i’m pretty sure the military has a record of dealing with young people to produce a respectable citizen (in addition to a fighting machine). no matter background, new recruits are stripped down to “nothing” then built back up, esp with emphasis on respect -
to others (for survival) - to parents+family, country, and NOT separated from faith.

additionally, there are military schools for teens, boot camp type schools. pretty much about socializing and discipline.

all these things can and are taught in healthy families, usually without the severity and rigidity.
from toddler age. respect for others, self-restraint. it’s a process of years.

however, once you have teens+older coming from all backgrounds thrown together in close quarters, play time is over.

- - - - - - -

some have said, crime+chaos are the “price of freedom”.
well. they’re the price of devastated families, i wouldn’t argue that. not God’s plan.

i’ve read somewhere, the PERCENTAGE of criminals/violent criminals is small (and known!) - present society allows them.
the tail wags the dog.

Altho it’s not rocket science, there seems to be refusal to find effective ways of mitigating damages.
This is a mystery.

There is no INHERENT reason $20,000 neighborhoods can’t be clean and crime-free.
According to scriptures, the wealthy have the harder path. A recurring message.

wealth+ease are stumbling blocks.