Minimum optimal size for a congregation

[JayP]

Just for humor, my cousin’s parish in NE Philadelphia, St. Martin of Tours, had 2000 parishioners.
How is that for size

[R7ehr]

Our last three church plants aimed for 9-10 families. This seems to be working. Large enough for social network for most ages, small enough to make decisions, large enough to spread the load, large enough to have a teacher or four if a school is needed. All three of these moved 3+ hours away, are operating their own small grade schools, and all three have built a church/school building. I’m not saying that 10 is the barest of minimum. It really depends on what the goal is. I see some inner city projects starting with only a family or two. But if you’re aiming for a typical rural Mennonite church, 9-10 might be minimum.

Is this factoring for those remaining in the “home” fellowship?

The home church might start out with 30-50 families. And then I saying that the 10 are removed, leaving 20-40 families in the original congregation.

[R7ehr]

Another reason for 10, is for working out fights disagreements. It is nice to have enough men to adjudicate it. Imagine that when I get in a fight with another person, and we each have a teammate in our fight supporting us. That is 4 people. There are still 6 people left, to offer a reasonable path to peace. And if the fight involves 2 combatants + 4 biased supporters, you still have someone to offer cooler viewpoint.
The fewer the people, the more say each has. But there are also fewer people to fix it when things have gone gunny bags.

[JohnH]

Just for humor, my cousin’s parish in NE Philadelphia, St. Martin of Tours, had 2000 parishioners.
How is that for size

My local parish has gotten so small that the diocese keeps threatening to merge it with a neighbouring one. (The Vatican or Archdiocese of Cincinatti or whomever is in charge of dioceses keeps wanting to shut down the diocese and merge it with Columbus, too.) It hasn't happened yet since the remaining parishioners continue to give generously and the priest who serves both refuses to retire despite being old enough he certainly deserves a retirement, but he doesn't want to live the parishioners in one of the parishes high and dry.

[Praxis+Theodicy]

How many households or members do you think are the bare minimum for a congregation to function properly?

I feel pretty strongly about "three".

With three families, in disagreements, people can look at "the church community" as something important to submit to. Loving my neighbor and maintaining the United witness of the church reminds me to be humble when we have disagreements.

When there are only "two" families, a disagreement doesn't have a larger body to submit to... it's just you vs me, and we are forced to continue fighting it out to prove which one is right. This doesn't lead to humility and love, it leads to bitter rivalry and dissension. And if one person does decide to be more humble and loving, this just gives the other person the ability to control the church. Not a good situation.

So I think three families is a good minimum... like a three-legged stool. Show me a good 2-legged stool and maybe I'll change my mind.

Obviously, 3 is a MINIMUM. I think a good church should have more than this. 5 families feels like a good minimum for me, personally, where my family is with our spiritual needs. But a church plant can function with 3 families.

And no, I won't entertain the option of "One" family. Home-churching, as some call it, is not "church" at all.

[the-real-steve]

Our church is thinking of dividing due to an overcrowded building, so there are discussions on what to do about it. One idea that comes up is the complaint that dividing would mean the group sizes would be so small that there wouldn't be enough people to fill all the jobs in the church such as Sunday school teachers, committee members, janitors, and such. I'm not sure why downsizing our list of jobs isn't an option, but it brings up the question of what the minimum optimal size is for a congregation.

How many households or members do you think are the bare minimum for a congregation to function properly?

We were part of two small groups back in the day, both of Brethren persuasion. One had attendance of maybe 90 people, membership was roughly half that. That group was dominated by one family, hence they never really grew, had various schisms and splinters over the years.

Another was maybe 20 - 30 people at most. That one was a split from the Dunkard Brethren and died off within ten years. I'm not saying a small group can't survive, but the dynamics really change.

[JohnH]

125 human beings seems to be the optimal size. This could be anywhere from 60 to 10 families.

[ohio jones]

We were part of two small groups back in the day, both of Brethren persuasion. One had attendance of maybe 90 people, membership was roughly half that.

Thank you for providing numbers I can understand. Attendance and membership are easily quantified. The propensity of some groups (and posters) to count in terms of families seems odd to me, and disrespectful of singles and others in non-traditional family situations. Am I a "family" or not? What about someone who is a member, but the rest of their family does not attend? An elderly widow whose children belong to other churches? If she lives with one of them, does she count separately or as part of their family? Why does a newlywed couple change the number of families from 2 to 3 while the actual number of people remains the same?

125 human beings seems to be the optimal size.

That seems about right to me. Aside from visiting larger churches a handful of times, all of my experience has been in churches with an average attendance of 200 or less. At the upper end of that range, it seems difficult to keep track of everyone's name, let alone cultivate a relationship with each of them.

[JayP]

I do not disagree with any of the thoughts offered. I appreciate the deep ties and community relationships of theAmish and some of the Mennonite groups I have known. And yet, I have also appreciated my Catholic perspective (and some parishes are communities) of the anonymity within worship. I think there is a place for it in worship, I like knowing nothing about the folks on either side of me when visiting a new church while traveling. For in the end, my place with God depends on the vertical too, and not just the horizontal (which counts too).

[temporal1]

I do not disagree with any of the thoughts offered. I appreciate the deep ties and community relationships of theAmish and some of the Mennonite groups I have known. And yet, I have also appreciated my Catholic perspective (and some parishes are communities) of the anonymity within worship. I think there is a place for it in worship, I like knowing nothing about the folks on either side of me when visiting a new church while traveling. For in the end, my place with God depends on the vertical too, and not just the horizontal (which counts too).

It’s a completely different approach, that’s true.
When we first hesitantly visited a Lutheran Church, we arrived expecting a foreign environment. It was.
For us, it was the pastor’s heart in his sermon that grabbed our attention. He came across as unusually genuine.
That made learning to accept the differences, esp the formality and liturgy, worth it to continue.

We later learned he had a terminal diagnosis. i have to believe this was conveyed in everything he did, it brought urgency.
Thankfully, i’m sure he received many prayers, he continued as pastor for several years, we were with him!

Our daughter married a non-practicing Catholic, he assured her he would respect her choice for church.
That turned out to not be true.

Soon after marriage, it turned out, altho he’s not practicing, and has denied interest in any religion, he considers Catholicism to be the only religion (he respects?) i’m not sure. he confuses on that matter.

Our daughter felt betrayed. i counseled her to not feel betrayed.
i didn’t sense he was lying, he just didn’t know himself, that’s not lying. And, it often happens in courtship. On both sides.
That’s some of what marriage contracts are for. To protect marriages through bumps. i believe in fathers leading, and submission to God’s headship order.

When their daughter was born, what to do?
The decision wasn’t immediate. i believe she was 1+ when she was baptised in his parents’ Catholic Church.

A big decision and concession, of course.
Because by then i knew more about infant baptism, esp that it’s later followed with Confirmation, i found peace with it.

i’ve wondered when the steps of First Communion and Confirmation appeared?
Because these were initially literally life+death choices, were these steps added following the Reformation?
i’ve never been certain of this.

The child is 17. She has always accepted her faith (well beyond her parents).
i have been with her in her journey. i’m thankful she has her “home away from home” i describe it. Church and school.
Lots of grandparents are present, some from great distances, like, India. Extended family are welcome and treated warmly.

i’ve been grateful for everything all these years. The world can be desperate and lost.
i never expected to have a Lutheran, then Catholic experience. what a life!

It’s a different approach. One God.