Decline of christianity in the united states

[barnhart]

As an Anabaptist, I carry a touch of inoculation against Christian nationalism. The reason I exist on this side of the Atlantic is fleeing the brutality of Christian nationalism.

[JohnH]

The United States as an entity wasn’t seen as endorsing a particular religion but it was expected the individual states would (and of course be “Christian” states); several states had established churches,

Just becuse something did happen, and just because it was not explicitly prohibited, does not necessarily imply that it is "expected". Also, even if something is expected, that does not demonstrate a case in either direction. When Roe v. Wade was overturned, it was "expected" that many states would move to outlaw abortion. This does not demonstrate that America is pro-life. It was also "expected" that many states would move to bolster and expand abortion rights and access. This does not demonstrate that Amaerica is pro-choice, either.

and generally anyone holding public office or testifying had to (s)wear an oath to / on the Bible. (Pennsylvania famously allowed them to just affirm since they had so many Quakers).

Anyone serving in the American government must swear or affirm their commitment to uphold the Constitution of America, but, in fact, requiring someone to swear on the Bible is strictly prohibited in that very constitution. Article 6, section 3 of the American constitution reads:

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

Government officers have been sworn in without a physical object to swear by, and have also used many different objects to swear by, such as a religious text from their own beliefs (like a Qur’an, a Bhagavad Gita, or the Hebrew "Old Testament"), or other texts like a children's book, a book of prayer, or a copy of the constitution itself.
source: https://bookriot.com/books-politicians- ... orn-in-on/

I was referring to the states, not the United States.

Generally speaking, an atheist (for example) couldn’t hold public office and wasn’t considered a reliable courtroom witness either.

[JohnH]

As an Anabaptist, I carry a touch of inoculation against Christian nationalism. The reason I exist on this side of the Atlantic is fleeing the brutality of Christian nationalism.

Did such a thing even exist back then? As far as I can tell, “Christian nationalism” is a recent invention, mostly exisiting in the minds of people who hold political opinions about current events.

[ohio jones]

As an Anabaptist, I carry a touch of inoculation against Christian nationalism. The reason I exist on this side of the Atlantic is fleeing the brutality of Christian nationalism.

Did such a thing even exist back then? As far as I can tell, “Christian nationalism” is a recent invention, mostly exisiting in the minds of people who hold political opinions about current events.

Exhibit A: The "Holy" "Roman" "Empire."

[Praxis+Theodicy]

I was referring to the states, not the United States.

I'll copy/paste this again, then, with emphasis added:

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

Generally speaking, an atheist (for example) couldn’t hold public office and wasn’t considered a reliable courtroom witness either.

This is stretching definitions. Most of the founding fathers were essentially deists, and were by no means orthodox Christians. Iirc, Benjamin Franklin was an atheist or at least an agnostic and had a great deal of trust among his compatriots. I'm not sure how likely you'd be to even come across an "atheist" (in the sense we know of today) back then. What sort of scenario are we coming across where religion or irreligion barred someone from public office? Or is it just an imagined hypothetical scenario?

[JohnH]

As an Anabaptist, I carry a touch of inoculation against Christian nationalism. The reason I exist on this side of the Atlantic is fleeing the brutality of Christian nationalism.

Did such a thing even exist back then? As far as I can tell, “Christian nationalism” is a recent invention, mostly exisiting in the minds of people who hold political opinions about current events.

Exhibit A: The "Holy" "Roman" "Empire."

Much like the Conservative Amish-Mennonite Conference, it was neither holy, Roman, nor an empire.

[Ken]

As an Anabaptist, I carry a touch of inoculation against Christian nationalism. The reason I exist on this side of the Atlantic is fleeing the brutality of Christian nationalism.

Did such a thing even exist back then? As far as I can tell, “Christian nationalism” is a recent invention, mostly exisiting in the minds of people who hold political opinions about current events.

Nationalism is really the more recent invention and really only took root on a widespread scale with the fall of the traditional imperial regimes in the wake of WW1.

But Christianity (or religion in general) has always played a role in state building and territorial expansion. Whether it was the crusades, the conquest of the Americas, the endless religious wars in Europe, the rise of the Islamic empire, and so forth.

And the Christian Nationalist notion that one particular people (or nation) is favored by God is the oldest trope of Christianity. And is much older than Christianity even if you consider Judaism.

[JohnH]

I would argue "Christian nationalism" is a misnomer since the very essence of Christianity is that the church is composed of "neither Jew nor Greek".

And is much older than Christianity even if you consider Judaism.

Well, Christianity and Judaism aren't the same thing.

[barnhart]

As an Anabaptist, I carry a touch of inoculation against Christian nationalism. The reason I exist on this side of the Atlantic is fleeing the brutality of Christian nationalism.

Did such a thing even exist back then? As far as I can tell, “Christian nationalism” is a recent invention, mostly exisiting in the minds of people who hold political opinions about current events.

Nationalism is really the more recent invention and really only took root on a widespread scale with the fall of the traditional imperial regimes in the wake of WW1.

But Christianity (or religion in general) has always played a role in state building and territorial expansion. Whether it was the crusades, the conquest of the Americas, the endless religious wars in Europe, the rise of the Islamic empire, and so forth.

And the Christian Nationalist notion that one particular people (or nation) is favored by God is the oldest trope of Christianity. And is much older than Christianity even if you consider Judaism.

It might shift about and adopt new forms, but it smells the same to me. Jesus would have nothing to do with it.

[Ken]

I would argue "Christian nationalism" is a misnomer since the very essence of Christianity is that the church is composed of "neither Jew nor Greek".

And is much older than Christianity even if you consider Judaism.

Well, Christianity and Judaism aren't the same thing.

Of course not. I didn't say they were.

What I said was that both Christian nationalism and Judaism promote the notion that one particular people or nation is favored by God.