Decline of christianity in the united states

[Szdfan]

I’m reading slowly through the Old Testament- God called out a people, His elect, to glorify Him among the nations with false Gods. That was the rest of the world. Christ came to reconcile the world to the Father through His death and Resurrection that whosoever believed in Him would have eternal life.

What did Christ commission the Apostles to do?

Preach the kingdom of heaven is here, no longer put your hope and confidence in the kingdoms of this world, they will soon pass away.

No one is suggesting to put your confidence in kingdoms of this world (although millions of illegal immigrants seem to) however nations are known by the Gods they worship or false gods- this is an area I part ways here I do agree with other Christians perspectives on some things.

I think that if we are going to define nations by the “gods” they worship, I think it’s fair to call Donald Trump a “false god” because from my side of the fence, the adoration given towards Trump looks an awful a lot like idol worship. What I see happening, doesn’t just look like political loyalty, but borders on devotion — a loyalty that deflects truth, embraces cruelty and treats criticism as heresy.

[Bootstrap]

– In 1900, there wasn't a single mosque in the United States; today, there are nearly 3,000 mosques.
– In 1900, there wasn't a single mandir (Hindu temple) in the United States; today, there are nearly 1,000.
– In 1900, there wasn't a single abortion clinic in the United States; today, there are nearly 800.

In 1900, there were roughly 60-70,000 Mennonites in the United States. 20–30 million Protestants. 10 million Catholics. And an awful lot of non-Christians:

- 270,000 Mormons
- 85,000 Christian Scientists
- 50,000–75,000 Jehovah's Witnesses
- 100,000–250,000 Spiritualists, who believed in communicating with the dead.
- 6,000–10,000 members of Theosophical Societies
- 1,000 members of Vedanta / Hindu groups
- 10,000 members of Buddhist temples
- 1.5 million Jews
- a few thousand Muslims
- 800,000–1 million Freemasons

Mainstream Christianity has definitely declined as a percentage of the population. The largest category is not Muslims or Hindus, but "Nones", people who have no religion. They are now 30% of adults. "Spiritual but not religious" is the fastest growing group.

No matter how vibrant Christianity is, there are always other religions. That's not our problem. Our problem is getting people on fire for Christianity. True, biblical Christianity. Instead of being afraid that Muslims and Hindus exist, we need to be asking how we can live for the Kingdom and communicate it better, show how it is relevant to real life, show how it brings meaning to life.

For that reason, I am more worried about hypocritical Christianity and politics-as-Christianity than I am about Muslims. They confuse people about what Christianity is.

[Bootstrap]

– Meanwhile, according to a 2019 study by Lifeway Research (remember, this was before Covid), church closures are outpacing openings, with a net loss of 1,500 churches per year.

That's the real issue.

We're doing a terrible job of spreading the Gospel. Not because they would reject Jesus, but because they do not see Jesus in us. The world can see that "creation is groaning and longing to be released". They can't see that we have any answers for that.

[Szdfan]

1. What is your definition of a "Great Nation"?

2. What characteristics of America signify greatness?

3. Since when has Christianity ever been concerned with the "greatness" of nations?

Good questions. I can add another. What is a Christian nation?

Blessed are a people whose God is the Lord.

And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation.

But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people.

These scriptures you are quoting, are they about the modern nation-state?

I’m especially concerned about your misapplication of 1 Peter 2:9, which is directly about the Church as a spiritual people, not a political entity. I think applying these scriptures to secular national identity corrupts Scripture.

[JohnH]

Good questions. I can add another. What is a Christian nation?

Blessed are a people whose God is the Lord.

And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation.

But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people.

These scriptures you are quoting, are they about the modern nation-state?

I’m especially concerned about your misapplication of 1 Peter 2:9, which is directly about the Church as a spiritual people, not a political entity. I think applying these scriptures to secular national identity corrupts Scripture.

Barnhart asked what a Christian nation is. I replied with scriptures that refer to a Christian nation.

Do you disagree with the scriptures?

[temporal1]

^^lots of posts added while i was writing. i’ll go back to read.

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Thomas_muntzer,
i believe your OP was posted in good faith for the purpose of constructive Christian dialogue.
sorry it’s doomed for the equivalent of a political food fight.

evil “hit the jackpot” with some of the fav divisive talking points even found here.
dividing Christians against one another is both pretty easy and, hey, “life is good” for evil, only required to sit back and tally wins.

fighting over the letter is the essence of human law. no bottom to that pit. [the spirit 2Cor3:6]

from your posting history, i believe you’re seeking the spirit, it’s a lifelong journey. ”the spirit gives life”

evil doesn’t sleep. it can’t, it has no peace, at all. it’s often noisy, always empty. insatiable.
evil has no shame about taking the most sacred things to twist for wrong. through the letter is a slam dunk. “for the letter kills”

- - - - - - -

i wish i could locate it, somewhere, oj noted, to paraphrase, Mennonites began separation of church from state, but aren’t credited for it. i believe this is accurate. i believe it’s an important message in scriptures.

i also believe, esp in the left-west, evil has exploited this Truth, which has led to some if not all of your OP notes.
“the letter kills” is all around.

when i was young, my puzzling father predicted the most vulnerable part of the U.S. is Christianity.
he predicted twisting of Christianity, to harm Christians, would do it. decades later, i still wrestle with his words.
i was young. he had already faced atheism, communism, varying if not infighting Christians.

my elders and theirs were not ignorant, inexperienced, uneducated.

[Szdfan]

Blessed are a people whose God is the Lord.

And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation.

But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people.

These scriptures you are quoting, are they about the modern nation-state?

I’m especially concerned about your misapplication of 1 Peter 2:9, which is directly about the Church as a spiritual people, not a political entity. I think applying these scriptures to secular national identity corrupts Scripture.

Barnhart asked what a Christian nation is. I replied with scriptures that refer to a Christian nation.

Do you disagree with the scriptures?

I don’t disagree with the scriptures, I disagree with your use of it.

You’re quoting verses that describe the people of God and applying them to political entities. The first two describe covenantal Old Testament Israel. The last verse describes the Christian Church. The problem is that you then apply them to modern nations like the United States. That’s not faithfulness to Scripture. That’s Christian nationalism.

1 Peter 2:9 isn’t about America. It’s about the Church.

[Szdfan]

^^lots of posts added while i was writing. i’ll go back to read.

- - - - - - -

Thomas_muntzer,
i believe your OP was posted in good faith for the purpose of constructive Christian dialogue.
sorry it’s doomed for the equivalent of a political food fight.

evil “hit the jackpot” with some of the fav divisive talking points even found here.
dividing Christians against one another is both pretty easy and, hey, “life is good” for evil, only required to sit back and tally wins.

fighting over the letter is the essence of human law. no bottom to that pit. [the spirit 2Cor3:6]

from your posting history, i believe you’re seeking the spirit, it’s a lifelong journey. ”the spirit gives life”

evil doesn’t sleep. it can’t, it has no peace, at all. it’s often noisy, always empty. insatiable.
evil has no shame about taking the most sacred things to twist for wrong. through the letter is a slam dunk. “for the letter kills”

I believe Thomas posted in good faith, but it’s also possible to disagree with him in good faith. His OP is an argument for Christian nationalism — it’s not exactly a shock that a forum full of Anabaptists would disagree and push back on him.

[temporal1]

^^lots of posts added while i was writing. i’ll go back to read.

- - - - - - -

Thomas_muntzer,
i believe your OP was posted in good faith for the purpose of constructive Christian dialogue.
sorry it’s doomed for the equivalent of a political food fight.

evil “hit the jackpot” with some of the fav divisive talking points even found here.
dividing Christians against one another is both pretty easy and, hey, “life is good” for evil, only required to sit back and tally wins.

fighting over the letter is the essence of human law. no bottom to that pit. [the spirit 2Cor3:6]

from your posting history, i believe you’re seeking the spirit, it’s a lifelong journey. ”the spirit gives life”

evil doesn’t sleep. it can’t, it has no peace, at all. it’s often noisy, always empty. insatiable.
evil has no shame about taking the most sacred things to twist for wrong. through the letter is a slam dunk. “for the letter kills”

I believe Thomas posted in good faith, but it’s also possible to disagree with him in good faith. His OP is an argument for Christian nationalism — it’s not exactly a shock that a forum full of Anabaptists would disagree and push back on him.

i prefer to address him about his thoughts, questions, rather than labeling, jumping to conclusions, going on attack.
you do you, tho.

[JohnH]

These scriptures you are quoting, are they about the modern nation-state?

I’m especially concerned about your misapplication of 1 Peter 2:9, which is directly about the Church as a spiritual people, not a political entity. I think applying these scriptures to secular national identity corrupts Scripture.

Barnhart asked what a Christian nation is. I replied with scriptures that refer to a Christian nation.

Do you disagree with the scriptures?

I don’t disagree with the scriptures, I disagree with your use of it.

You’re quoting verses that describe the people of God and applying them to political entities. The first two describe covenantal Old Testament Israel. The last verse describes the Christian Church. The problem is that you then apply them to modern nations like the United States. That’s not faithfulness to Scripture. That’s Christian nationalism.

1 Peter 2:9 isn’t about America. It’s about the Church.

Hey Szdfan,

Can you stop putting words in my mouth? I literally quoted 3 scriptures. That was all.