Ultra Conservative Mennonite Churches

[cooper]

These Tennessee churches had lots of church problems as you could expect for such a group of people.

What characteristics of the people or group are you suggesting caused the problems?

I think any group founded by a group of dissatisfied people is going to have a lot of instability at the beginning. You see this with Charity and Followers of the Way.

The Tennessee churches attracted some people with what I will call spiritual OCD - nothing is ever quite conservative enough. Kenneth Copp, now known as “the Amish atheist” is perhaps an example. He moved around a lot and was at the Tennessee churches for a stint, then went Amish, and finally totally abandoned his faith.

[eccentric_rambler]

I think any group founded by a group of dissatisfied people is going to have a lot of instability at the beginning. You see this with Charity and Followers of the Way.

The Tennessee churches attracted some people with what I will call spiritual OCD - nothing is ever quite conservative enough. Kenneth Copp, now known as “the Amish atheist” is perhaps an example. He moved around a lot and was at the Tennessee churches for a stint, then went Amish, and finally totally abandoned his faith.

Thanks for clarifying. I thought that might have been your point, and I agree.

I think it comes down to group culture and individual expectations. Groups formed around a single cause, such as anti-internet, can have similar growing pains. An established group has an established culture and a large enough majority to stabilize that culture. A new group, particularly one with a single-faceted purpose and a large variety of backgrounds will have growing pains until a culture emerges. Some people will leave because the culture that emerges isn't what they pictured. Others, particularly of the "spiritual OCD" variety, will try to drive the culture to conform to their ideal.

[JohnH]

These Tennessee churches had lots of church problems as you could expect for such a group of people.

What characteristics of the people or group are you suggesting caused the problems?

I think any group founded by a group of dissatisfied people is going to have a lot of instability at the beginning. You see this with Charity and Followers of the Way.

The Tennessee churches attracted some people with what I will call spiritual OCD - nothing is ever quite conservative enough. Kenneth Copp, now known as “the Amish atheist” is perhaps an example. He moved around a lot and was at the Tennessee churches for a stint, then went Amish, and finally totally abandoned his faith.

I find such people utterly fascinating.

[Ken]

What characteristics of the people or group are you suggesting caused the problems?

I think any group founded by a group of dissatisfied people is going to have a lot of instability at the beginning. You see this with Charity and Followers of the Way.

The Tennessee churches attracted some people with what I will call spiritual OCD - nothing is ever quite conservative enough. Kenneth Copp, now known as “the Amish atheist” is perhaps an example. He moved around a lot and was at the Tennessee churches for a stint, then went Amish, and finally totally abandoned his faith.

I find such people utterly fascinating.

What makes them fascinating to you?

I find people who can't hold down coherent views and beliefs over time (whether they be religious beliefs, political beliefs, or some other beliefs) to be rather incoherent, not particularly grounded, and not very interesting. As in: "Why should I pay any attention to what you are saying if you are just going to discard it for the next shiny thing in another year?"

Someone who has actually lived their beliefs through thick and thin I find more interesting and admirable.

[Soloist]

I just find them sad, that they can’t find a home… and that no one can get through to them.

[JohnH]

What makes them fascinating to you?

I find people who can't hold down coherent views and beliefs over time (whether they be religious beliefs, political beliefs, or some other beliefs) to be rather incoherent, not particularly grounded, and not very interesting. As in: "Why should I pay any attention to what you are saying if you are just going to discard it for the next shiny thing in another year?"

Someone who has actually lived their beliefs through thick and thin I find more interesting and admirable.

There's an underlying consistency to what they seek which is what I find fascinating. In particular, I find people whose ideologies are subject to constant change/churn to be quite interesting - that is, I try to find what the actual consistency underneath is which drives all this seeming inconsistency on the surface.

[JayP]

I think some of those comments are unfair. I feel compassion for everyone trying to figure their way through this, especially in modern times. Many come from religious backgrounds that are crumbling. Many folks, fromCatholics to various Protestants and even Anabaptists come from a setting where (even if we disagree on elements of practice or theology) had many good points and a environment from which a person could grow in their Christian belief. Now they are told women can be men and vice versa, etc.
changing settings has SO many elements that are, frankly, unfair it seems to me.

I love Orthodoxy. But it has elements tin many congregations that are cultural. So does Anabaptism.
I cannot be Amish. Oh, do not lecture me about the one here or there that could do it, and try to imply it’s your fault you cannot go live among a society that is so family linked and bound, while speaking a language frequently that you do not know.
Mennonites are not far behind.

I have trouble understanding how anyone joins a Protestant church….for in 20 years you have NO IDEA WHAT THEY WILL TEACH or WHO IS RUNNING IT. Leaving theology aside, we know the Bishop of Philadelphia is ping to be answerable up to Rome, and all the parishes under him will not get new renegade boards.

I have seen Eastern (and what in the Anabaptist world I’d more structured and controlling than Eastern) congregations dramatically change in 20 year periods.

Asking people that cross denominational and societal bounds is hard. Especially so many seekers have financial or familial issues that contribute to instability.

I have great respect for an Old Order minister I know, who said he was deeply troubled when I and my family left a conservative Mennonite setting, because (and this is NOT about me) he felt we were as well equipped as anyone to “make it” and if we did not stay He felt it said something was wrong with the church.

Yes, many seekers lack things, but it reminds me of people who speak about the poor “Oh they just have poor ways”. Maybe that is true…but they are poor and that is a reality.

[Ernie]

I love Orthodoxy. But it has elements tin many congregations that are cultural. So does Anabaptism.

And so do most Catholic congregations.

[Ernie]

I have trouble understanding how anyone joins a Protestant church….for in 20 years you have NO IDEA WHAT THEY WILL TEACH or WHO IS RUNNING IT. Leaving theology aside, we know the Bishop of Philadelphia is ping to be answerable up to Rome, and all the parishes under him will not get new renegade boards.

People can choose between:
1. churches with long history that are not free to do what is best in a situation because of hierarchical chain of command and historical precedent, but experience some stability in forms of worship etc. (except when these things change sometimes as well)
or
2. Go for an option where everyone is free to reach for the best, but experience the ups and downs associated with this.

Some prefer the latter.

[Ernie]

I think some of those comments are unfair. I feel compassion for everyone trying to figure their way through this, especially in modern times. Many come from religious backgrounds that are crumbling. Many folks, from Catholics to various Protestants and even Anabaptists come from a setting where (even if we disagree on elements of practice or theology) had many good points and a environment from which a person could grow in their Christian belief. Now they are told women can be men and vice versa, etc.

The only antidote for sin, confusion, heresy, etc. is to build and grow communities of believers who love the things God loves and hates the things God hates. Anything else is doomed to fail at some point.