Poll: Age for Dating and Marriage

[Ken]

I realize this sort of thing is the common urban legend, but none of it is true. And it is not even close to being true. I have been doing college counseling for HS students for two decades and I'm pretty knowledgeable about that arena. Let's go point to point through this stuff.

First of all scholarships and financial aid. At most public universities (where the vast majority of students attend) financial aid is almost entirely need-based and entirely sex-blind. Neither women nor men have any advantage when it comes to student loans, Pell Grants, work study, or the various smaller state scholarships that states offer. And the amount of special merit scholarships offered by public universities is pretty trivial and entirely formulaic (based on some computer formula, usually test scores and grades). So if you want to go to Iowa State, Colorado State, Cal State Fullerton, etc. there is zero difference for men and women when it comes to admissions and financial aid.

You know my experience was firsthand applying for scholarships and seeing zero for men in Nursing. I counted one or two gender neutral that I could apply for and being in competition against all the women and 14 for only women.
It’s not like I’m speaking out of ignorance here. you may live in a bubble.
The point though was that this is a perception that you dismiss out of hand and failed to understand where a person is coming from. Which was exactly my point.

There are always various small private scholarships that various groups run. For example, my wife's employer has one for children of employees. But that sort of thing isn't even rounding error when it comes to how college is funded in this country. And is often pointless because it just reduces your need formula for financial aid. You are in Oregon are you not? The vast majority of nursing students in Oregon attend public community colleges or OHSU.

Let's look at OHSU which is the largest nursing school in Oregon. Most financial aid is the normal federal loans, grants, and work study that is sex-blind. But here is the complete list of all dozens of special scholarships available to nursing students at OHSU. Including all of the outside scholarships that OHSU nursing students are eligible for. Can you point to ANY of them that are exclusively for women or even favor women? https://www.ohsu.edu/school-of-nursing/ ... holarships

I don't see a single one that even mentions a sex preference. And I did a word search to make sure I wasn't missing any. I also checked some of the local community colleges and none of them offer any nursing scholarships dedicated to women. I couldn't find a single one. In fact, most nursing programs are trying hard to attract more male applicants.

[Soloist]

There are always various small private scholarships that various groups run. For example, my wife's employer has one for children of employees. But that sort of thing isn't even rounding error when it comes to how college is funded in this country. And is often pointless because it just reduces your need formula for financial aid. You are in Oregon are you not? The vast majority of nursing students in Oregon attend public community colleges or OHSU.

Let's look at OHSU which is the largest nursing school in Oregon. Most financial aid is the normal federal loans, grants, and work study that is sex-blind. But here is the complete list of all dozens of special scholarships available to nursing students at OHSU. Including all of the outside scholarships that OHSU nursing students are eligible for. Can you point to ANY of them that are exclusively for women or even favor women? https://www.ohsu.edu/school-of-nursing/ ... holarships

I don't see a single one that even mentions a sex preference. And I did a word search to make sure I wasn't missing any. I also checked some of the local community colleges and none of them offer any nursing scholarships dedicated to women. I couldn't find a single one. In fact, most nursing programs are trying hard to attract more male applicants.

Are you seriously going to argue with me about when I went to Nursing School in Oregon and applied for the only scholarships available?

[Ken]

There are always various small private scholarships that various groups run. For example, my wife's employer has one for children of employees. But that sort of thing isn't even rounding error when it comes to how college is funded in this country. And is often pointless because it just reduces your need formula for financial aid. You are in Oregon are you not? The vast majority of nursing students in Oregon attend public community colleges or OHSU.

Let's look at OHSU which is the largest nursing school in Oregon. Most financial aid is the normal federal loans, grants, and work study that is sex-blind. But here is the complete list of all dozens of special scholarships available to nursing students at OHSU. Including all of the outside scholarships that OHSU nursing students are eligible for. Can you point to ANY of them that are exclusively for women or even favor women? https://www.ohsu.edu/school-of-nursing/ ... holarships

I don't see a single one that even mentions a sex preference. And I did a word search to make sure I wasn't missing any. I also checked some of the local community colleges and none of them offer any nursing scholarships dedicated to women. I couldn't find a single one. In fact, most nursing programs are trying hard to attract more male applicants.

Are you seriously going to argue with me about when I went to Nursing School in Oregon and applied for the only scholarships available?

I am saying that today in 2025 I see no sign that colleges in general or nursing programs in particular favor women over men in admissions and scholarships. And I help many students apply for college every year.

If nursing schools are discriminating against men in admissions or scholarships surely you can point to some evidence of it. Pretty much every single scholarship out there in this day and age is online. Where are all these nursing scholarships that are restricted to women only?

Also, private scholarships (not affiliated with the university) don't always help when it comes to financial aid. They simply reduce the economic need formula on the FAFSA. So if you get a $1000 scholarship from some outside source, colleges often just reduce their financial aid award by $1000 to compensate. The only time they really help is if you are so wealthy that you don't qualify for any need-based financial aid: https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org/pay- ... ancial-aid

[Soloist]

I am saying that today in 2025 I see no sign that colleges in general or nursing programs in particular favor women over men in admissions and scholarships. And I help many students apply for college every year.

All I’m saying is that is my experience is that there was quite a few scholarships that specifically were geared towards women when I attended pre-Covid. Maybe it’s changed, I don’t know, my wife handled the majority of the process for me. Primarily the only things available was federal grants.

[R7ehr]

I suspect (with no historical evidence) that debauchery and the decay of the home - husband and wife raising their children together in one home - is more likely to have been the biggest reason for ancient civilizations collapsing than climate change. The Mayans, Egyptians, etc.

I think this because of the chaos, confusion, and societal cost it is having today in our civilization. I think that when a civilization becomes so wealthy and powerful, humans invariably become depraved. They have too much idle time and energy, and without God they are left to their own damaging devices. And their civilization declines.

This is the sin of Sodom. Ezekiel 16:49
Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.

I think every wealthy civilization does what Sodom did. Reminds me of America, but also Saudi Arabia, and the other Gulf countries.

Probably the wealthiest civilization in history other than modern America was the British Empire in the 19th and early 20th Centuries. That was the Victorian era which was the opposite of debauchery.

They impoverished themselves fighting wars against Germany and Japan and lost most of their empire due to rising independence movements (India, Kenya, Egypt, Nigeria, South Africa, etc.) not debauchery.

Same thing with the French in Indochina, Algeria, Morocco, etc.

British Empire collapsed, but their civilization continues. Their Victorian era (arguably) contributed towards their material success, not the collapse of their civilization (which didn’t happen).

[Ken]

I suspect (with no historical evidence) that debauchery and the decay of the home - husband and wife raising their children together in one home - is more likely to have been the biggest reason for ancient civilizations collapsing than climate change. The Mayans, Egyptians, etc.

I think this because of the chaos, confusion, and societal cost it is having today in our civilization. I think that when a civilization becomes so wealthy and powerful, humans invariably become depraved. They have too much idle time and energy, and without God they are left to their own damaging devices. And their civilization declines.

This is the sin of Sodom. Ezekiel 16:49
Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.

I think every wealthy civilization does what Sodom did. Reminds me of America, but also Saudi Arabia, and the other Gulf countries.

Probably the wealthiest civilization in history other than modern America was the British Empire in the 19th and early 20th Centuries. That was the Victorian era which was the opposite of debauchery.

They impoverished themselves fighting wars against Germany and Japan and lost most of their empire due to rising independence movements (India, Kenya, Egypt, Nigeria, South Africa, etc.) not debauchery.

Same thing with the French in Indochina, Algeria, Morocco, etc.

British Empire collapsed, but their civilization continues. Their Victorian era (arguably) contributed towards their material success, not the collapse of their civilization (which didn’t happen).

My point was that the decline and collapse of world's greatest empire (at least since the Romans) had nothing or next to nothing to do with debauchery.

Most civilizations don't collapse completely. They just move off the world stage. The Aztecs, Maya, and Inca are still with us as anyone who has ever visited Guatemala or Bolivia can attest.

[Ken]

I am saying that today in 2025 I see no sign that colleges in general or nursing programs in particular favor women over men in admissions and scholarships. And I help many students apply for college every year.

All I’m saying is that is my experience is that there was quite a few scholarships that specifically were geared towards women when I attended pre-Covid. Maybe it’s changed, I don’t know, my wife handled the majority of the process for me. Primarily the only things available was federal grants.

I have recently had two male science students go into nursing. And from what I could tell, nursing programs are very eager to recruit male students and are trying hard to make nursing less of a female-coded profession. They were basically fawned over when they showed up at the recruitment booth.

[Soloist]

I have recently had two male science students go into nursing. And from what I could tell, nursing programs are very eager to recruit male students and are trying hard to make nursing less of a female-coded profession. They were basically fawned over when they showed up at the recruitment booth.

8 men went in and 36 women. I can't recall how many women made it through, but 1 guy did. If anything, the system is anti men. Now from those men, I know 2 of them legit needed to be kicked. The one who made it through worked in the hospital for years before attending. The recruiters are not the instructors and I personally experienced the anti men sentiment from my instructor when I got pneumonia.

Nurses eat their young. Nurses also (the older ones) believe men have no place in nursing.

[JohnH]

The actual truth is that universities across the country are spending like crazy to attract men. And most of the expensive amenities you see college building today are really geared towards men: 3-story climbing walls, lavish fitness centers, lazy river waterparks, crazy expensive athletic facilities at small colleges, over-the-top dining halls and food courts, e-sport facilities.

Back when most college students were men, colleges (as far as I know) didn't have these things.

Perhaps what young men are looking for at a college isn't any of the things in that list, particularly when they're expected to go deeply into debt for it. If I want a climbing wall, I can go to a nearby climbing gym. If I need to go to a waterpark, I'll go to the waterpark. I can get a gym membership for "lavish fitness center". If I want over-the-top dining, restaurants are available.

[Ken]

The actual truth is that universities across the country are spending like crazy to attract men. And most of the expensive amenities you see college building today are really geared towards men: 3-story climbing walls, lavish fitness centers, lazy river waterparks, crazy expensive athletic facilities at small colleges, over-the-top dining halls and food courts, e-sport facilities.

Back when most college students were men, colleges (as far as I know) didn't have these things.

Perhaps what young men are looking for at a college isn't any of the things in that list, particularly when they're expected to go deeply into debt for it. If I want a climbing wall, I can go to a nearby climbing gym. If I need to go to a waterpark, I'll go to the waterpark. I can get a gym membership for "lavish fitness center". If I want over-the-top dining, restaurants are available.

I don't support lavish spending on amenities like that. Nor to I support lavish spending on administrative overhead which is something that has overtaken many universities. Just look at university president and dean salaries compared to assistant professors who are doing the actual work.

But there is no question that all that spending is geared towards attracting men. Far from trying to make universities hostile to men, they are bending over backwards and lowering the standards (relative to women) to attract more men. This is one of the worst kept secrets in academia.

I'm sure there are a complex set of reasons for why men are attending college at lower rates than women. But the notion that colleges have made their campuses hostile to men is not one of them. To the contrary.

And actually if you step back and look at the data, men are not attending college at lower rates than in the past. In fact, relative to say the 1960s or 1980s, men today are attending college at HIGHER rates than they used to. What has actually happened is that the increase in the rate of women's attendance has just gone up even faster and now people perceive it as some sort of crisis that men are attending college at lower rates than women. When curiously it was never a crisis in the past when the opposite was true.

Both lines are going up over time for both men and women. The women's line is just going up faster. Which doesn't represent any sort of crisis in my book, but it makes it harder for college educated women to find college educated male spouses. Which I don't really see as a crisis either, just a demographic reality. I'm absolutely in favor of providing more non-college career opportunities for both men and women. Unfortunately our policies seem to be going in the opposite direction in this country.