Poll: Age for Dating and Marriage

[JohnH]

Nearly all college students used to be men. “This is bad and is unfair to women. It needs to be more equal.”

So various measures were taken to make college more comfortable for women and more hostile to men.

“Those lazy, unmarriageable men who just won’t go to college, versus these smart, accomplished women!”

Basically, in many spheres, external measures are taken to give women an advantage. Men withdraw from the sphere. Then women (as an aggregate) find that “why aren’t there a bunch of handsome, above average income, above average income education men willing to marry me?”

[temporal1]

Most American women hope to marry but current shortages of marriageable men - with a stable job ...

In other words, there are plenty of brides but not enough grooms.

Come on guys, not even an eye roll at this one?

[temporal1]

Nearly all college students used to be men. “This is bad and is unfair to women. It needs to be more equal.”

So various measures were taken to make college more comfortable for women and more hostile to men.

“Those lazy, unmarriageable men who just won’t go to college, versus these smart, accomplished women!”

Basically, in many spheres, external measures are taken to give women an advantage. Men withdraw from the sphere.
Then women (as an aggregate) find that “why aren’t there a bunch of handsome, above average income, above average income education men willing to marry me?”

yep.
it’s noticed in church leadership, too.
women show up in the pulpit, (traditional) men disappear. (lots of “identifies as” show up.)
funny. george/gcdonner pointed this out years ago on MD. i hadn’t noticed. i learned to agree.

strange as it is, God’s way works out.
without question, God knew very well all He created with women! it wasn’t just some 1900’s feminist revelation to Him!!
it wasn’t an oversight. human reasoning doesn’t t r u m p God’s design.

God designed intelligent, able females for the responsible and valuable roles of wife+mother for HIS GOOD reasons,
not to waste their lives, rob their husbands+children, but to fulfill His plans. Obviously, in scriptures, He uses women in varying ways. He doesn’t use all women for all things at all times. That’s a modern feminist construct.

Chloe Carmichael and the Timcast panel on P.11, reflect much of today’s left-west problem.
They’re not working with balanced facts, where would they have gotten balanced education? - They’re not educated in the Bible. They need more, they need to search beyond what they’ve been fed, and yoga.

Personally, i’d like to encourage young females to focus on husbands+family first, pursue higher ed/careers after 30, if they choose.
And feel supported and fulfilled in the process! - Not as Dr Chloe describes, like they are losers if family-centered.
i’m well-aware of the pressures. not good.

My beloved grdaughter is 17.
Being bright+able in the PNW, she’s being pushed to the limits in every way. i pray she has the sense to resist.

i pray a worthwhile young man recognizes her value as i do, AND that she is prepared to hold up her end of the important responsibilities of wife+mother. This is no minor thing for either party.

i use these words when i talk with my children, now adults, and my grchild. imho, they need to know THEY need to be deserving of good spouses, not just that they deserve good spouses. and, of course, none is perfect!

2 people cheerfully bringing what they have to the marriage. Not “equal”. Giving. Appreciating.
i never dreamed i’d be able to give as much to my husband as i received. In time, God showed me i could, and how and when.
In retrospect, i’m just humbled.

i expect i’m the only one talking to her like this. i pray, in Catholic school, i’m not the only one.
we include talk about celibacy and the possbility of work in the church .. i believe in well-rounded information. actual choices are made when informed, not with “parts left out”. as is common today.

Many young adults are feeling betrayed by “parts left out” in their educations. Dr Chloe describes what she experiences in her therapy practice with professional young women. (i’ve read about it for decades.) It’s real. It’s sad. Precious time lost.

With good intentions, human reasoning typically puts things out of God’s order. Then confusion results. WHAT HAPPENED?
Human reasoning is convinced of being smarter than God. Every time.

For my grdaughter, i hope she doesn’t have to think too long before returning to scriptures for answers.
He provides His Way.

[temporal1]

i hope readers won’t overlook the first pages in this topic.
good discussion there. more focused on the subject line+poll.

[temporal1]

i wrote:
.. Many young adults are feeling betrayed by “parts left out” in their educations. Dr Chloe describes what she experiences in her therapy practice with professional young women. (i’ve read about it for decades.) It’s real. It’s sad. Precious time lost.

With good intentions, human reasoning typically puts things out of God’s order. Then confusion results. WHAT HAPPENED?
Human reasoning is convinced of being smarter than God. Every time. ..

One error in the P.11 Timcast video is, Tim has this “really good idea” about why young people aren’t marrying as they did in the past. He’s saying it was a small town/rural thing, people didn’t move around, etc. [No. i disagree.] i don’t think any of them mention BC pills-abortion, i guess these things are just normal for them.

Before at-will-BC-pills-and-abortion-for-all, my culturally mixed world was filled with all sorts of people, races, cultures, faiths, wealthy, poor, well educated, sophisticated, those in poverty. Atheists. All in traditional marriages, most with children, very little divorce.

^^This needs to be common knowledge. i would add, laws that encouraged single mothers were another hard blow.
Young people shouldn’t be so ignorant. There’s no acceptable excuse for it.

Young women with PhDs shouldn’t be wandering around wondering what hit them.
They did everything they were told to do. i know they did.

Timcast / P.11:

Found in Comments:
@wpriddy WROTE:
“remove all birth control and government assistance.
the problem fixes itself instantly.“

yep. he summed it up.

[R7ehr]

I suspect (with no historical evidence) that debauchery and the decay of the home - husband and wife raising their children together in one home - is more likely to have been the biggest reason for ancient civilizations collapsing than climate change. The Mayans, Egyptians, etc.

I think this because of the chaos, confusion, and societal cost it is having today in our civilization. I think that when a civilization becomes so wealthy and powerful, humans invariably become depraved. They have too much idle time and energy, and without God they are left to their own damaging devices. And their civilization declines.

This is the sin of Sodom. Ezekiel 16:49
Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.

I think every wealthy civilization does what Sodom did. Reminds me of America, but also Saudi Arabia, and the other Gulf countries.

[Ken]

Honestly, I think the whole issue with men having no plan is because they see the world stacked against them. We have allowed young adult men to be radicalized because they see all the benefits that the women get.

They don’t see a woman’s perspective naturally. But case in point, stem scholarships for women, scholarships for Nursing School for women.

Now, where is the Midwife scholarship for a guy? Where is the Nursing School scholarship for a male?
Where is the men scholarship for stem?

and

Nearly all college students used to be men. “This is bad and is unfair to women. It needs to be more equal.”

So various measures were taken to make college more comfortable for women and more hostile to men.

“Those lazy, unmarriageable men who just won’t go to college, versus these smart, accomplished women!”

Basically, in many spheres, external measures are taken to give women an advantage. Men withdraw from the sphere. Then women (as an aggregate) find that “why aren’t there a bunch of handsome, above average income, above average income education men willing to marry me?”

I realize this sort of thing is the common urban legend, but none of it is true. And it is not even close to being true. I have been doing college counseling for HS students for two decades and I'm pretty knowledgeable about that arena. Let's go point to point through this stuff.

First of all scholarships and financial aid. At most public universities (where the vast majority of students attend) financial aid is almost entirely need-based and entirely sex-blind. Neither women nor men have any advantage when it comes to student loans, Pell Grants, work study, or the various smaller state scholarships that states offer. And the amount of special merit scholarships offered by public universities is pretty trivial and entirely formulaic (based on some computer formula, usually test scores and grades). So if you want to go to Iowa State, Colorado State, Cal State Fullerton, etc. there is zero difference for men and women when it comes to admissions and financial aid.

Second, competitive private universities like the Ivy Leagues and the many other private universities that aspire to be competitive and elite the dirty little secret is that men have the advantage. The admissions bar is lower for men and men receive a higher percentage of merit scholarships and athletic scholarships because all such schools are trying to keep their male-female ratios relatively even. And to accomplish this they need to favor men in admissions and financial aid. Curiously the Supreme Court and Congress have made it illegal to have affirmative action programs for Blacks, Hispanics, or other underserved minorities. But no such prohibitions exist when it comes to affirmative action for men. So it is practiced widely and rather secretly by most competitive universities. Don't believe me? Here is a recent NYT long-form article on the subject: ‘There Was Definitely a Thumb on the Scale to Get Boys’: Declining male enrollment has led many colleges to adopt an unofficial policy: affirmative action for men: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/08/maga ... =url-share

Third, in contrast to JohnH's assertion that colleges are trying to make things more hostile to men. The opposite is actually true. I have visited at least 50 universities over the past decide on college visits with my 3 daughters over the years and for various other school related functions. The actual truth is that universities across the country are spending like crazy to attract men. And most of the expensive amenities you see college building today are really geared towards men: 3-story climbing walls, lavish fitness centers, lazy river waterparks, crazy expensive athletic facilities at small colleges, over-the-top dining halls and food courts, e-sport facilities. Walk into any multi-million fitness center at any university and count the percentage of men versus women using it. Or count the percentage of male versus female student athletes at any random NAIA or D3 small college. This stuff is geared towards attracting men. The reason why small colleges have expensive football programs is to attract men. Unless you are a school like Michigan or Alabama, football is a money pit. And it is an enormous one at small colleges. Small Colleges, Short of Men, Embrace Football: https://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/10/educ ... =url-share

Whatever set of reasons has resulted in less men attending college compared to women has nothing to do with the colleges themselves. The opposite is true. Colleges have been desperately trying to tilt the playing field in favor of men for decades.

[Soloist]

Case in point:

This is Mennonet… out of context is the name of the game!

[Soloist]

I realize this sort of thing is the common urban legend, but none of it is true. And it is not even close to being true. I have been doing college counseling for HS students for two decades and I'm pretty knowledgeable about that arena. Let's go point to point through this stuff.

First of all scholarships and financial aid. At most public universities (where the vast majority of students attend) financial aid is almost entirely need-based and entirely sex-blind. Neither women nor men have any advantage when it comes to student loans, Pell Grants, work study, or the various smaller state scholarships that states offer. And the amount of special merit scholarships offered by public universities is pretty trivial and entirely formulaic (based on some computer formula, usually test scores and grades). So if you want to go to Iowa State, Colorado State, Cal State Fullerton, etc. there is zero difference for men and women when it comes to admissions and financial aid.

You know my experience was firsthand applying for scholarships and seeing zero for men in Nursing. I counted one or two gender neutral that I could apply for and being in competition against all the women and 14 for only women.
It’s not like I’m speaking out of ignorance here. you may live in a bubble.
The point though was that this is a perception that you dismiss out of hand and failed to understand where a person is coming from. Which was exactly my point.

[Ken]

I suspect (with no historical evidence) that debauchery and the decay of the home - husband and wife raising their children together in one home - is more likely to have been the biggest reason for ancient civilizations collapsing than climate change. The Mayans, Egyptians, etc.

I think this because of the chaos, confusion, and societal cost it is having today in our civilization. I think that when a civilization becomes so wealthy and powerful, humans invariably become depraved. They have too much idle time and energy, and without God they are left to their own damaging devices. And their civilization declines.

This is the sin of Sodom. Ezekiel 16:49
Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.

I think every wealthy civilization does what Sodom did. Reminds me of America, but also Saudi Arabia, and the other Gulf countries.

Probably the wealthiest civilization in history other than modern America was the British Empire in the 19th and early 20th Centuries. That was the Victorian era which was the opposite of debauchery.

They impoverished themselves fighting wars against Germany and Japan and lost most of their empire due to rising independence movements (India, Kenya, Egypt, Nigeria, South Africa, etc.) not debauchery.

Same thing with the French in Indochina, Algeria, Morocco, etc.