TX FLOODS! 20 kids missing from Christian camp!

[JohnH]

A couple who each earn $10.23 an hour full time from age 18 until retirement technically earn "millions over the years". I would not call their $10 an hour jobs "cash cows". Unfortunately, camps around here have closed / been auctioned off and sold or just abandoned as it seems to be getting harder to find people to run them and also harder to recruit campers / run programs for kids that make it possible to keep the front gates open.

[Thomas_muntzer]

I agree with Kylie jane i think this was a man error maybe the damn upper river get damaged or the gates were open by mistake i don't know

No, you don't know.

There is no dam upstream of these camps. The dam on the Guadalupe (which creates Canyon Lake) is at least 30-40 miles downstream of where these flash floods occurred. And it protects the town of New Braunfels, not these rural summer camps.

To the extent that there was human error it was on the part of the state and county for choosing not to fund any sort of flood warning system for that area even though they knew it was hugely vulnerable.

Also human error on the part of the camp owner (who died in the flood) for not having a better response plan in place and for keeping cabins down on low ground next to the river instead of relocating them on higher ground long ago. This summer camp was a cash cow for the owners (it earned them millions over the years) and they could have done a better job protecting the children in their care.

A total tragedy. May God grant serenity and comfort to the families of the deceased. May they rest in peace

[Ken]

A couple who each earn $10.23 an hour full time from age 18 until retirement technically earn "millions over the years". I would not call their $10 an hour jobs "cash cows". Unfortunately, camps around here have closed / been auctioned off and sold or just abandoned as it seems to be getting harder to find people to run them and also harder to recruit campers / run programs for kids that make it possible to keep the front gates open.

This is not your typical church camp.

Camp Mystic catered to the rich and famous of Texas with tuition north of $6,000. It was basically a summer country club for rich Texan girls. Two members of Congress had their daughters there last week and they mostly draw from the super upscale neighborhoods in TX like River Oaks, Westlake, Highland Park, etc. Laura Bush went there as have the grandchildren of different presidents. You have to know the right people and right money to even get your daughter in and they had a decade-long waiting list.

The family that owned the camp went through a very public secession battle over control that cost over $6 million in legal fees and spilled out over into the newspapers. Here is a 2011 Texas Monthly story about the saga: https://www.texasmonthly.com/being-texa ... y-campers/

It was definitely a cash cow. Ownership of the camp was buried in layers of corporate shells for liability and tax reasons but in 1999 the camp was valued at over $15 million and the controlling family owners were paying themselves a salary of $337,000 in salaries, bonuses, and dividends per year, and various minority partner family members were getting annual dividends in the $200,000 range for doing nothing. That was from reporting done in 2011, who knows what they were pulling in today, 25 years later, no one knows because it isn't a public company.

So, not your typical Menno summer camp.

The point is, they had the resources and obligation to keep their campers safe and failed to do so. If you want to place blame, some of it lies there and some of it on the state and county officials who chose not to fund a flash flood warning system in the heart of the most flood-prone area of the entire country.

[Soloist]

it is important though to know that God has our lives in his hands, and doesn’t allow anything to happen without it being part of His plan.

I don’t agree with the notion that whenever something bad happens is that it’s part of God’s plan. I don’t believe that it was part of God’s plan for 88 people in Texas to drown to death. I think bad things happen outside of God’s plan because Creation is fallen and out of alignment with God’s intentions.

I do believe that when bad things happen, God is present with us through Jesus Christ and grieves with us.

Wife: I wasn’t meaning in some fatalistic way or saying that God actively caused the destruction and killed the people. Death, destruction, illness and natural disasters were never part of the original plan and came in to the world when sin came in, but God knew that it would happen, and before even creating the world, came up with a rescue plan.

Psalm 139 says that God knows our going in and our coming out and everything about us even before we’re born. If He chooses not to intercede in a specific situation, He has some really good reason for it probably beyond human understanding, but He still weeps for those who are grieving, and certainly cannot be blamed for it.

I have heard people use that logic trying to say God actively led a child to their death/gave someone cancer ect, and they mean well, but I don’t think that’s how it works, although God does say that He works out all things for the good of those who love him. I have a friend who found out devastating news, and chose to use their affliction/loss to reach out and help others in their afflictions.

Romans five is beautiful. If death and destruction entered our world through the sin of one man, how much greater is the justification, grace and redemption through Jesus.

Anyways, the reason I brought that up was because I have a tendency to be fearful, and one of the first things that I think about with this is incredible fear of it ever happening to me/my children or other bad things happening. knowing that God will never allow something that won’t work out for our ultimate good helps me with that. Doesn’t mean that I’m going to ignore flood/tornado/whatever warnings or go around without my seatbelt on in some fatalistic way, but it gives me comfort when I’m tempted to anxiety.

[ohio jones]

That was from reporting done in 2011, who knows what they were pulling in today, 25 years later, no one knows because it isn't a public company.

They must have been milking that cash cow to the Max.

[JohnL]

Back to the topic.
The death toll appears to be near 100. I know Samaritan's Purse has gone in to help. Are there any other church organizations helping out?

[JohnH]

So, not your typical Menno summer camp.

Did anyone claim it was?

The point is, they had the resources and obligation to keep their campers safe and failed to do so. If you want to place blame, some of it lies there and some of it on the state and county officials who chose not to fund a flash flood warning system in the heart of the most flood-prone area of the entire country.

They had the resources to stop flash floods?

[temporal1]

OP:

Urgent prayer concern. Please please pray! This is in Kerrville, TX.
Texas river flood leaves at least 13 dead and 20 children missing; camp evacuated by helicopter

i understand this to be a call for prayer.

In former times, that was respected on MD-MN.
As a new-newer member, i appreciated it. Rarely found in the world.

[Ken]

So, not your typical Menno summer camp.

Did anyone claim it was?

The point is, they had the resources and obligation to keep their campers safe and failed to do so. If you want to place blame, some of it lies there and some of it on the state and county officials who chose not to fund a flash flood warning system in the heart of the most flood-prone area of the entire country.

They had the resources to stop flash floods?

You were talking about this place as if it was a typical Christian summer camp that is struggling to stay afloat. That is not this place. This place is an elite summer country club for the daughters of the wealthy and powerful

They had the resources to make sure their campers were not fast asleep in the path of rising flood waters. For example, they could have built new cabins that were not sitting in a notorious flood zone.

Like I said, if you want to assign blame for this disaster it is going to be shared between the camp owners and and the state and local officials who all dropped the ball here. This was not some unpredictable event.

[JohnH]

They had the resources to make sure their campers were not fast asleep in the path of rising flood waters. For example, they could have built new cabins that were not sitting in a notorious flood zone.

Like I said, if you want to assign blame for this disaster it is going to be shared between the camp owners and and the state and local officials who all dropped the ball here. This was not some unpredictable event.

I find your attitude disgusting in the face of a tragedy.

That is all.