Illegal alien arrivals now greater than American births?

[JohnH]

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[HondurasKeiser]

Why mention Kensington and not being afraid of black and brown people then? We all see the humanity in all kinds of people; your statement suggests some of us don’t, which is spurious. Not all “demographic shifts” are equal. Although we’re called to treat all people with love and dignity we can do so without welcoming the destruction of neighborhoods and cultures especially when it involves vice, and death and soul-destroying substances.

I hear what you’re saying about crime and social problems destroying neighborhoods—those are real concerns. But when you respond to someone saying they’re not afraid of Black or Brown people by talking about “demographic shifts” that bring vice and destruction, it sounds like you’re saying race is the cause of those problems.

I’m not sure what all the causes are—poverty, bad schools, lack of opportunity, and other hard things probably all play a part. But I don’t think it’s about people’s skin color. It’s easy to mix up cause and effect and start blaming race for situations that are much more complicated.

I wasn't the on that linked Black and Brown people with the Kensington neighborhood. That was JBG. I was simply responding. Nice try.

[joshuabgood]

Why mention Kensington and not being afraid of black and brown people then? We all see the humanity in all kinds of people; your statement suggests some of us don’t, which is spurious. Not all “demographic shifts” are equal. Although we’re called to treat all people with love and dignity we can do so without welcoming the destruction of neighborhoods and cultures especially when it involves vice, and death and soul-destroying substances.

I hear what you’re saying about crime and social problems destroying neighborhoods—those are real concerns. But when you respond to someone saying they’re not afraid of Black or Brown people by talking about “demographic shifts” that bring vice and destruction, it sounds like you’re saying race is the cause of those problems.

I’m not sure what all the causes are—poverty, bad schools, lack of opportunity, and other hard things probably all play a part. But I don’t think it’s about people’s skin color. It’s easy to mix up cause and effect and start blaming race for situations that are much more complicated.

I wasn't the on that linked Black and Brown people with the Kensington neighborhood. That was JBG. I was simply responding. Nice try.

Does it surprise you that it doesn't feel to me like I linked Kensington with black and brown either? Kensington was brought into the conversation as an example of "the danger" of demographic shift. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, but black and brown came into the conversation because that is actually we are talking about when we speak about the booming number of "illegal aliens" births. So linking illegal aliens or demographic shift with Kensington was done prior to me mentioning it. At least that is my perspective.

[joshuabgood]

Demographic shifts, also, are nothing to be scared of. Things change.

That's right. Demographic shifts are nothing to be scared of. If your neighborhood becomes Kensington Ave with homeless fentanyl addicts camping on your doorstep and in your backyard, that's nothing to be scared of. If it becomes South Shore, Chicago with rampant robbery, assault and gun violence, that's nothing to be scared of. In fact, if the demographic shifts away from hard-working Hispanics and shifts toward gangs of skinheads - that's nothing to be scared of at all. Things change, you know.

The only exception is if you live in Mexico or Venezuela or some such country and the demographics in your neighborhood change so that you no longer feel safe. Then you should be scared for your life and flee to the USA.

As someone hinted earlier, the Native Americans were fools to have been scared of the demographic shifts that occurred when the Europeans started crossing the Atlantic.

Here is the first use of Kensington in the discourse...and as you can see, I don't think it was me that made a link between Kensington and demographic shifts.

[HondurasKeiser]

Demographic shifts, also, are nothing to be scared of. Things change.

That's right. Demographic shifts are nothing to be scared of. If your neighborhood becomes Kensington Ave with homeless fentanyl addicts camping on your doorstep and in your backyard, that's nothing to be scared of. If it becomes South Shore, Chicago with rampant robbery, assault and gun violence, that's nothing to be scared of. In fact, if the demographic shifts away from hard-working Hispanics and shifts toward gangs of skinheads - that's nothing to be scared of at all. Things change, you know.

As far as I can tell, none of those examples are about immigration.

There's a huge drug problem on Kensington Avenue in Philadelphia, but the people involved are overwhelmingly US-born. There's gang-violence on the South Shore of Chicago, but they are also overwhelmingly US-born. Skinhead gangs are overwhelmingly white US-born Americans.

In Chicago, immigration was linked to declines in neighborhood violence over time. In NYC in the 1990s–2000s, massive immigration coincided with dramatic drops in crime. If immigrant families were moving into places like South Shore or Kensington, you would be more likely to see more occupied housing, more small businesses, stronger neighborhood institutions, stronger churches, and lower crime rates. Should those things scare me?

I think this is one of the reasons that people who live among high immigrant populations are generally accepting of them. There are tons of immigrants where I live, and not much opposition to them.

Maybe this is why using the term "Demographic Shift" to describe something much more unique than people from one area of a country moving to a different area of that country, is unhelpful and cumbersome.

[HondurasKeiser]

Demographic shifts, also, are nothing to be scared of. Things change.

That's right. Demographic shifts are nothing to be scared of. If your neighborhood becomes Kensington Ave with homeless fentanyl addicts camping on your doorstep and in your backyard, that's nothing to be scared of. If it becomes South Shore, Chicago with rampant robbery, assault and gun violence, that's nothing to be scared of. In fact, if the demographic shifts away from hard-working Hispanics and shifts toward gangs of skinheads - that's nothing to be scared of at all. Things change, you know.

The only exception is if you live in Mexico or Venezuela or some such country and the demographics in your neighborhood change so that you no longer feel safe. Then you should be scared for your life and flee to the USA.

As someone hinted earlier, the Native Americans were fools to have been scared of the demographic shifts that occurred when the Europeans started crossing the Atlantic.

Here is the first use of Kensington in the discourse...and as you can see, I don't think it was me that made a link between Kensington and demographic shifts.

But you were the first to read race into it.

[joshuabgood]

That's right. Demographic shifts are nothing to be scared of. If your neighborhood becomes Kensington Ave with homeless fentanyl addicts camping on your doorstep and in your backyard, that's nothing to be scared of. If it becomes South Shore, Chicago with rampant robbery, assault and gun violence, that's nothing to be scared of. In fact, if the demographic shifts away from hard-working Hispanics and shifts toward gangs of skinheads - that's nothing to be scared of at all. Things change, you know.

The only exception is if you live in Mexico or Venezuela or some such country and the demographics in your neighborhood change so that you no longer feel safe. Then you should be scared for your life and flee to the USA.

As someone hinted earlier, the Native Americans were fools to have been scared of the demographic shifts that occurred when the Europeans started crossing the Atlantic.

Here is the first use of Kensington in the discourse...and as you can see, I don't think it was me that made a link between Kensington and demographic shifts.

But you were the first to read race into it.

The fact that immigrants are mostly brown and black and therefore this "scary" boom of babies are brown or black babies is merely a fact. I am not sure there is anything else to do with that. And the fact that a "neighborhood going bad" historically in the USA society, has meant it becoming less white and "property values falling" as a result, of things like the Great Migration, etc, is also a historical fact. Wouldn't you agree? Many scholars feel there is a racial component. And linking Kensington to it...well, seems pretty sus.

[ohio jones]

My goal is to help people see the image of God in all. And to realize that people, of all demographics, are the best thing of God's creation. Demographics shift, they just do. I can understand grieving losses when family/friends move etc...however, I still hold that people don't need to be scared...as this thread heading seems to suggest as an issue...that being that immigrant births outnumber American births. I can guarantee you that many immigrants would feel such a lament is pejorative.

It has been asserted several times, both in the original run of the thread and the current revival, that "immigrant arrivals" does not mean quite what the OP says or implies. But the statement that immigrant births outnumber American births is a new twist, and not an accurate one.

[JohnH]

The fact that immigrants are mostly brown and black and therefore this "scary" boom of babies are brown or black babies is merely a fact. I am not sure there is anything else to do with that. And the fact that a "neighborhood going bad" historically in the USA society, has meant it becoming less white and "property values falling" as a result, of things like the Great Migration, etc, is also a historical fact. Wouldn't you agree? Many scholars feel there is a racial component. And linking Kensington to it...well, seems pretty sus.

"Demographic change" includes things other than migration between countries.

A "neighborhood going bad" generally has meant just that: an increase in crime, broken windows, cars being broken into, houses broken into, being robbed, mugged, and so forth. Often such a change has nothing at all to do with race, but it certainly is a "demographic change" even if the racial composition of the area doesn't budge at all.

Overall, as Christians sometimes we are called to be salt and light in a "bad neighborhood" but there are also limits of what is possible. There are a lot of things I'm willing to do as an adult man that I'm a lot less willing to subject a young woman to, or children. One of them is living in a place with constant threats to one's physical safety.

[Ken]

My goal is to help people see the image of God in all. And to realize that people, of all demographics, are the best thing of God's creation. Demographics shift, they just do. I can understand grieving losses when family/friends move etc...however, I still hold that people don't need to be scared...as this thread heading seems to suggest as an issue...that being that immigrant births outnumber American births. I can guarantee you that many immigrants would feel such a lament is pejorative.

It has been asserted several times, both in the original run of the thread and the current revival, that "immigrant arrivals" does not mean quite what the OP says or implies. But the statement that immigrant births outnumber American births is a new twist, and not an accurate one.

Which immigrant births are not American births?