Illegal alien arrivals now greater than American births?

[barnhart]

I am familiar with this type of argument from the people around me in the rural South. It's certainly not new.

[Bootstrap]

It’s happening all over the world, but here in America there has been a strong, concerted push to replace the Americans who are born and raised here with migrants. Now, illegals aliens entering the country have exceeded American births.

No, that's not what your graph shows. Your graph shows that the number of people caught at the border ("apprehensions") is roughly the same as the number of American births. The number of apprehensions at the border measures how many people were caught trying to enter, not how many stayed. Most of those apprehended are either turned back, detained, or removed, especially in recent years.

To maintain the current population without immigration, we would need about 2.1 children per woman of childbearing age. The U.S. fertility rate is around 1.6–1.7, and trending down. U.S. Births are roughly 3.6 to 3.7 million per year. Net immigration is harder to estimate accurately because of illegal immigration, the highest credible estimates I can find are 1.7 to 2.8 million, which is definitely less.

I suggest easing the process for legal immigration. I suspect a majority of illegal aliens would rather be legal immigrants.

I agree. If you can't even have an immigration hearing for 4-5 years, the system is broken. We need to fund immigration courts. We also need clear, realistic pathways for legal immigration and refugees.

Hating and fear mongering don't really help anything.

[JohnH]

I am familiar with this type of argument from the people around me in the rural South. It's certainly not new.

I'm not from the rural south, and I'm not coming from the same perspective as they are. It is true that when I formed these opinions in 2001, I lived in DC, which some people consider part of "the south". But I'm about the furthest thing from a southerner that a human being can be.

[Bootstrap]

Why are so many infesting this country?

Infesting? You aren't from the US, you count as an immigrant. Are you "infesting" the country? Weren't you here illegally at one point? Do you get Medicaid and other benefits?

Why shouldn't we apply everything you say about other immigrants to you?

And why do you use the same language Hitler used to refer to Jews? Isn't that clearly hate-mongering? This is not a Kingdom of God approach to anything.

[JohnH]

To maintain the current population without immigration, we would need about 2.1 children per woman of childbearing age. The U.S. fertility rate is around 1.6–1.7, and trending down. U.S. Births are roughly 3.6 to 3.7 million per year. Net immigration is harder to estimate accurately because of illegal immigration, the highest credible estimates I can find are 1.7 to 2.8 million, which is definitely less.

Why do we need to "maintain the population" by adding more immigration?

I suggest easing the process for legal immigration. I suspect a majority of illegal aliens would rather be legal immigrants.

I agree. If you can't even have an immigration hearing for 4-5 years, the system is broken. We need to fund immigration courts. We also need clear, realistic pathways for legal immigration and refugees.

Why do we need to "fund immigration courts"? If there's a giant backlog... perhaps that means America simply already has plenty of immigrants, and we should focus on the ones already here and integrating them into society and dealing with the resultant problems that may arise. There is no particular reason that Americans need to cough up more money so they can pay to have even more immigrants arriving in the country.

Why do there need to be "clear, realistic pathways"? Perhaps the answer simply should be that America isn't currently an easy place for millions of people to have a "clear path" to migrate to. Is there something wrong with that?

Hating and fear mongering don't really help anything.

Which I haven't done. Are you concerned someone else in this thread promoted hate or fear mongering?

[joshuabgood]

Do you think you should lobby the government to call for no borders and no immigration restrictions?

I am lobbying for the way of Jesus, the golden rule, and Christian charity. And that the Kingdom of God would come on earth as also in heaven.

You're lobbying the government for that?

I would advocate for lobbying for that for everyone, every place, every time. Our loyalty is to King Jesus and his political entity...which runs up against the kingdoms of this world.

[JohnH]

Weren't you here illegally at one point?

Never. I did leave Canada once I decided I would have difficulty in the future getting permanent status. I have never entered or stayed illegally in any country.

Do you get Medicaid and other benefits?

I'm a U.S. citizen and qualify the same way every other U.S. citizen does.

Have I ever proposed stripping benefits from U.S. citizens?

Why shouldn't we apply everything you say about other immigrants to you?

Have I ever proposed stripping anything away from other U.S. citizens?

I think it's interesting this decayed into a personal attack.

[JohnH]

I am lobbying for the way of Jesus, the golden rule, and Christian charity. And that the Kingdom of God would come on earth as also in heaven.

You're lobbying the government for that?

I would advocate for lobbying for that for everyone, every place, every time. Our loyalty is to King Jesus and his political entity...which runs up against the kingdoms of this world.

Okay - but how does this look, practically? Are you saying we should lobby the government to not use force at all?

How does this not result in anarchy and resultant actual rule being by criminals, like has happened in Haiti where the government has ceased to function and cannot maintain a monopoly on force anymore?

[joshuabgood]

You're lobbying the government for that?

I would advocate for lobbying for that for everyone, every place, every time. Our loyalty is to King Jesus and his political entity...which runs up against the kingdoms of this world.

Okay - but how does this look, practically? Are you saying we should lobby the government to not use force at all?

How does this not result in anarchy and resultant actual rule being by criminals, like has happened in Haiti where the government has ceased to function and cannot maintain a monopoly on force anymore?

Yes to you first question. Violence begets violence. I think we should advocate for peace and the way of the cross for everyone.

Our salvation isn't in governments and police forces. I don't believe in "peace through strength."

[JohnH]

I would advocate for lobbying for that for everyone, every place, every time. Our loyalty is to King Jesus and his political entity...which runs up against the kingdoms of this world.

Okay - but how does this look, practically? Are you saying we should lobby the government to not use force at all?

How does this not result in anarchy and resultant actual rule being by criminals, like has happened in Haiti where the government has ceased to function and cannot maintain a monopoly on force anymore?

Yes to you first question. Violence begets violence. I think we should advocate for peace and the way of the cross for everyone.

Our salvation isn't in governments and police forces. I don't believe in "peace through strength."

How do you reconcile that with Romans?

Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

It doesn't tell us to tell the ruler to put his sword away. Rather, we're taught to put our own sword away, much as Jesus told the disciples to put their swords away when he was to be crucified. But I don't see where we're supposed to lobby the government to somehow become "pacifist".