Illegal alien arrivals now greater than American births?

[Grace]

But we've reached this weird point where people who talk a lot about dictators and freedom get really upset if we try to look at actual Nazis and Communists and what they did by reading what they wrote and said.

Actual Nazi's and communists did what?

1. Blamed others for every problem Germany faced. No acknowledgement that they created some of the economist oppression German citizens. If you listen to Press secretary KJP who speaks for the President, you can hear that mantra at every WH briefing. Every national problem we have today is blamed on either the former president, Republicans, Putin etc.

2. Blamed everything that was wrong in Germany on people who opposed them. Real or imagined. So true today with the current administration.

3. Hitler and the Nazi propagandists in the media carried their water. Being played out in real time today on mainstream media.

4. The Nazi’s persecuted and oppressed any opponents. School board members/Catholics/prior president, etc.

5. Nazi’s gave themselves power to rule by decree rather than passing laws through the Reichstag and the president. Since taking office in 2021 Joe Biden has signed 128 executive orders, 164 presidential memoranda, 543 proclamations, and 109 notices.

6. Nazi's didn't bring their own to justice in wrong doings. DOJ slowwalking Hunter Biden's tax crimes, letting the statute of limitations run out.

7. Supported and promoted the annihilation of millions of people. The current leadership supports and promotes the annihilation of the unborn.

It is true that words and flags commemorating Nazism, is horrible and wrong. However the actions of those in leadership is far more frightening, and go way beyond words and flags.

[RZehr]

Regarding white shorthairs they are tiny and irrelevant and o think it’s best not really speak about them or try to learn about them or repeat their ideology.

A strident and exclusionary dog person are you? I too see no particular place for them in this thread. Beautiful as they are, why are you bringing them up here? I don’t know that they are really any more tiny than other cats.

I have never actually met one in person. I’m not 100% convinced they even exist.

I have. And they most certainly do exist.

If you don’t think they exist, and think it’s best not to speak about them, why mention them in the first place?

[Josh]

I'll have to issue a retraction. I've definitely encountered white shorthairs and am convinced they exist.

Currently, my town is being invaded by tabby cats, not shorthairs (one could even go so far as to say they have infested my window wells). Their numbers are definitely exceeding the number of native, "non-illegal" non-feral cats having kittens (currently at zero for me). Whereas the invading tabbies have already produced a dozen kittens across two litters.

[Szdfan]

I can accept that you initially didn't know the roots of the Great Replacement conspiracy theory. There's been a deliberate effort to mainstream the theory with conservatives over the past few years. Tucker Carlson mentioned it numerous times when he was at Fox News. But once you did find out where this conspiracy theory came from, weren't you curious? At what point do we become responsible for the beliefs we hold?

None of us are such original thinkers that we come up with our ideas all on our own.

When you originally accused me of promoting neo nazi conspiracy theories, I made a decision to avoid learning anything about them and I continue to do so to this day. I don’t watch or listen to Carlson although occasionally other people send me clips of him.

My opinions on global population churn are entirely my own. I initially formed them circa 2001 when I was learning about massive displacements of people from their homelands into refugee camps, often the result of war or of corrupt governments replacing traditional title to lands to businesses or foreign nations to facilitate development. It became obvious to me this happens here in America and other first world nations, too.

Now, I’d like it if you’d stop accusing me of picking up some kind of conspiracy theory and would recommend you stop reading so much about conspiracy theories too. I don’t think global population churn is good, and what is happening present day is not “demographic change”.

Per Ohio Jones’s moderation request, I’ve moved to this thread.

John, I was willing to move on, but upon reflection, I had some questions I wanted to put out there.

1. You state that you have refused to learn anything more about Great Replacement Theory after you became aware of it. Why do you think willful ignorance or refusing to know is a defense?

2. You claim to have come up with the concept of demographic replacement without any outside influence. What does it say about your framework that you arrived at the same conclusions as white nationalist movements using the same language?

3. One of the core stories in the Old Testament is a migrant story — the Hebrews escaping slavery in Egypt. Throughout the Old Testament it’s one of the foundations of Israel. For example, the 10 Commandments identify God as “I am the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.” In the New Testament, Jesus’s family migrates to Egypt in order to escape Herod’s persecution. How does that shape how you think about immigration as a Christian?

Thanks.

[JohnH]

Per Ohio Jones’s moderation request, I’ve moved to this thread.

John, I was willing to move on, but upon reflection, I had some questions I wanted to put out there.

1. You state that you have refused to learn anything more about Great Replacement Theory after you became aware of it. Why do you think willful ignorance or refusing to know is a defense?

I am not interested in reading about conspiracy theories on the Internet.

I am not interested at all in conspiracy theories relating to neo Nazis and you told me that’s what it is, so I expressly have no desire to read it or learn anything about it.

If you want to discuss conspiracy theories you can find someone else to discuss them with.

2. You claim to have come up with the concept of demographic replacement without any outside influence. What does it say about your framework that you arrived at the same conclusions as white nationalist movements using the same language?

I already told you what my opinions about it are - I don’t think mass population churn is a good thing and often results in a lot of problems.

If you disagree that’s fine. That’s my opinion.

I don’t appreciate you accusing me of a neo Nazi conspiracy theory. Hitler liked dogs and I like dogs too but that doesn’t mean I’m influenced by Hitler because I like dogs.

Do you like dogs?

3. One of the core stories in the Old Testament is a migrant story — the Hebrews escaping slavery in Egypt. Throughout the Old Testament it’s one of the foundations of Israel. For example, the 10 Commandments identify God as “I am the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.”

I disagree with you claiming it’s a “migrant story”. It’s a story about God telling his people to go to a land they used to live in and then violently kill everyone who lived there and worshipped idols.

Do you think migrants should move into an area and kill everyone who isn’t following and worshipping the one and only true God?

In the New Testament, Jesus’s family migrates to Egypt in order to escape Herod’s persecution. How does that shape how you think about immigration as a Christian?

That also is not a “migrant story”. Both were provinces in Rome and are analogous to leaving Pennsylvania to go live in Virginia.

[Szdfan]

Thanks for answering my questions. I appreciate the responses. I have some follow up questions because you’ve said things that I think deserve clarity and I want to make sure I’ve understood you correctly,

1. You frame the Exodus story as a conquest story, not a migrantion story. Does this story then give Christians permission to participate in genocide and ethnic cleansing or does it mean that God grants land to certain people who are then allowed to expel or destroy others?

2. If you're correct that the Exodus story is a conquest story, how do you reconcile this with multiple explicit commands in the Old Testament to care for foreigners because "you were strangers in the land of Egypt?"

3. You said Jesus’s family fleeing Herod wasn’t migration because it was within the Roman Empire. Are you saying migration or fleeing persecution doesn't count if it's within the same empire? Doesn't internal migration exist?

4. You claim you came up with "demographic replacement" on your own without any outside influence, even though it shares the same language as white nationalists. Are you arguing that describing demographic change as "replacement" is as morally neutral as liking dogs?

Again, thanks for clarifying. I'm trying to understand your position.

[JohnH]

Thanks for answering my questions. I appreciate the responses. I have some follow up questions because you’ve said things that I think deserve clarity and I want to make sure I’ve understood you correctly,

1. You frame the Exodus story as a conquest story, not a migrantion story. Does this story then give Christians permission to participate in genocide and ethnic cleansing or does it mean that God grants land to certain people who are then allowed to expel or destroy others?

God gave the Israelites permission and indeed mandated that they slaughter idol worshippers, and not even dare to take the spoils for themselves.

I am not framing it as a “conquest story”. It is a conquest story. God commanded his people to utterly destroy the pagans in that land.

2. If you're correct that the Exodus story is a conquest story,

Could you explain to me what Exodus is if it’s not a story of God commanding his people to utterly annihilate pagan peoples who refused to repent and follow the true God?

how do you reconcile this with multiple explicit commands in the Old Testament to care for foreigners because "you were strangers in the land of Egypt?"

That’s obviously talking about foreigners from other places than Palestine, not the native inhabitants of places like Jericho and so forth whom the Israelites were commanded to destroy.

3. You said Jesus’s family fleeing Herod wasn’t migration because it was within the Roman Empire. Are you saying migration or fleeing persecution doesn't count if it's within the same empire? Doesn't internal migration exist?

Sure, migrating from Baltimore to Washington, DC exists. It’s quite a different thing than mass migration that’s possible because of modern technology.

4. You claim you came up with "demographic replacement" on your own without any outside influence, even though it shares the same language as white nationalists.

Can you hop off your hobby horse about comparing everything to white nationalism like it’s some kind of trump card? I don’t care. A lot of other people don’t care. It’s something I prefer not to learn about, not to know about, and not to be involved in. I suggest you do the same and set aside any obsessions or fascinations you might have with it. I have never even met a person who claims to subscribe to it.
I’m not convinced it really exists other than as a bogey-man in people’s minds or perhaps as something that attracts mentally ill or very troubled people.

Are you arguing that describing demographic change as "replacement" is as morally neutral as liking dogs?

I think “demographic change” is different than “replacement”, the latter being what happened when hordes of European settlers came to North America and systematically replaced the peoples who were already here.

Wouldn’t you agree calling that “demographic change” is a bit of a euphemism?

[Szdfan]

Thanks for answering my questions. I appreciate the responses. I have some follow up questions because you’ve said things that I think deserve clarity and I want to make sure I’ve understood you correctly,

1. You frame the Exodus story as a conquest story, not a migrantion story. Does this story then give Christians permission to participate in genocide and ethnic cleansing or does it mean that God grants land to certain people who are then allowed to expel or destroy others?

God gave the Israelites permission and indeed mandated that they slaughter idol worshippers, and not even dare to take the spoils for themselves.

I am not framing it as a “conquest story”. It is a conquest story. God commanded his people to utterly destroy the pagans in that land.

2. If you're correct that the Exodus story is a conquest story,

Could you explain to me what Exodus is if it’s not a story of God commanding his people to utterly annihilate pagan peoples who refused to repent and follow the true God?

how do you reconcile this with multiple explicit commands in the Old Testament to care for foreigners because "you were strangers in the land of Egypt?"

That’s obviously talking about foreigners from other places than Palestine, not the native inhabitants of places like Jericho and so forth whom the Israelites were commanded to destroy.

3. You said Jesus’s family fleeing Herod wasn’t migration because it was within the Roman Empire. Are you saying migration or fleeing persecution doesn't count if it's within the same empire? Doesn't internal migration exist?

Sure, migrating from Baltimore to Washington, DC exists. It’s quite a different thing than mass migration that’s possible because of modern technology.

4. You claim you came up with "demographic replacement" on your own without any outside influence, even though it shares the same language as white nationalists.

Can you hop off your hobby horse about comparing everything to white nationalism like it’s some kind of trump card? I don’t care. A lot of other people don’t care. It’s something I prefer not to learn about, not to know about, and not to be involved in. I suggest you do the same and set aside any obsessions or fascinations you might have with it. I have never even met a person who claims to subscribe to it.
I’m not convinced it really exists other than as a bogey-man in people’s minds or perhaps as something that attracts mentally ill or very troubled people.

Are you arguing that describing demographic change as "replacement" is as morally neutral as liking dogs?

I think “demographic change” is different than “replacement”, the latter being what happened when hordes of European settlers came to North America and systematically replaced the peoples who were already here.

Wouldn’t you agree calling that “demographic change” is a bit of a euphemism?

Thanks again for answering my question. I appreciate the clarifications.

I have a last set of questions about the practical application of your framework to what it means to follow Jesus today, I want to understand the moral and theological implications of what you're saying,

1. Does God still command the destruction of entire populations? Are their cases where ethnic cleansing or expulsion are morally justified for Christians to participate in?

2. You argue that God's commands to care for the stranger didn't apply to Canaan. Does it apply to anyone today? Are there groups you believe it doesn't apply to?

3. How do see you God's commands to destroy the Canaanites fit in with your own understanding of pacifism? Do you see pacifism as universal or does it only apply to certain groups and people?

4. How do you believe this framework you're arguing reflects the Gospel of Jesus Christ? What is the Good News for immigrants and migrants who may need to leave their home because of persecution or economic hardship?

[joshuabgood]

It’s happening all over the world, but here in America there has been a strong, concerted push to replace the Americans who are born and raised here with migrants. Now, illegals aliens entering the country have exceeded American births.



What needs to be done about this? Americans have already spoken resoundingly that we don’t want illegal aliens here. Housing costs are sky high due to the constant influx of people.

Illegal aliens get free medical care, free housing, and so on, whilst hard working Americans basically pay for all of this. Of course this was called a “conspiracy theory” a few years ago, but now it is obviously true and happening. The elites don’t like middle class Americans and want to replace them.

Why exactly is this a problem?

[JohnH]

delete