Non-denominational seminaries and church groups

[JohnH]

Walk into any non-denominational church in any major city and there is a good chance it will be theologically liberal and have a congregation that leans liberal politically. Walk into one in the rural or exurban south and the opposite is likely to be true.

In places I've been like Portland, OR, the "non-denominational" churches were overwhelmingly conservative, both theologically and politically. "Non-denominational" really does represent a specific alignment.

[JohnL]

Not to get into politics, but non-denominational Christians were the largest bloc that voted for Trump. That should give us pause.

You say "not to get into politics and then you get into politics.
This is not a political thread. It's in the General Theology forum. We're discussing theological and personal reasons for non-denom popularity.

I think it’s reasonable to observe that the non-denominational denomination has a very strong political bias.

If you want to discuss politics, do so in the politics section per forum rules. This is a politics free thread.

[Praxis+Theodicy]

I spent most of my life in Baptist churches, might as well have been non-denominational evangelical churches. I would say, in addition to the two possibilities that Barnhart suggested, that the pull of non-denominationalism could also be a sort of ecumenism. Not being a part of a denomination gives a feeling of freedom of finding brotherhood with many different groups. For myself growing up, I saw a wide range of Evangelical institutions as equally viable for me to make my home. Colleges, churches, parachurch orgs. Presbyterian, Methodist, Baptist, etc.

[Ken]

I spent most of my life in Baptist churches, might as well have been non-denominational evangelical churches. I would say, in addition to the two possibilities that Barnhart suggested, that the pull of non-denominationalism could also be a sort of ecumenism. Not being a part of a denomination gives a feeling of freedom of finding brotherhood with many different groups. For myself growing up, I saw a wide range of Evangelical institutions as equally viable for me to make my home. Colleges, churches, parachurch orgs. Presbyterian, Methodist, Baptist, etc.

I think there is something else going on as well. Around here in this part of the world, nondenominational churches tend to be the projects of egotistical empire-builder type preachers who are seeking to build their own personal religious empire. A typical big Baptist church is an established institution that will hire ministers who come and go but who are not larger than the church itself. Mennonite churches are very much the same. Whereas many nondenominational churches are the personal project of one single preacher who is building his own empire. And without who the church will often basically collapse.

For example, here in Vancouver we had a big nondenominational Megachurch called the Living Hope Church founded by a preacher named John Lee Bishop that expanded into an empty former K-Mart in a suburban strip mall where they had several thousand show for the show every Sunday. And it was a show with things like live tigers and airplanes in the building. But as it turned out John Lee Bishop got caught up in drug smuggling for a Mexican cartel that was a months long front page scandal here in Vancouver during his trial and imprisonment. Apparently will soon be a Hollywood movie starring Christian Bale. The story has to be read to be believed: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -book.html

Last time I drove by that spot there was no sign that a church had ever been there and the building is now an indoor trampoline park. That would not happen with a denominational church like Baptist or Methodist or Mennonite. A pastor might get caught up in scandal, but the church would still exist and move on and just find someone new to step into leadership. Because denominational churches are larger than just one person.

[Ken]

Walk into any non-denominational church in any major city and there is a good chance it will be theologically liberal and have a congregation that leans liberal politically. Walk into one in the rural or exurban south and the opposite is likely to be true.

In places I've been like Portland, OR, the "non-denominational" churches were overwhelmingly conservative, both theologically and politically. "Non-denominational" really does represent a specific alignment.

Well, I’m in the Portland suburbs and the biggest nondenominational church in my town called Journey Church, while somewhat theologically conservative (Biblical literacy etc.) is decidedly not a MAGA Trump type place. I know various teachers who attend and they are your typical Democrats. It isn’t my cup of tea. But they seem to make a pretty big effort to stay out of partisan politics and attract members from across the political spectrum. And mostly focus on local charity stuff like food banks, meals on wheels, that sort of thing.

[JohnH]

Walk into any non-denominational church in any major city and there is a good chance it will be theologically liberal and have a congregation that leans liberal politically. Walk into one in the rural or exurban south and the opposite is likely to be true.

In places I've been like Portland, OR, the "non-denominational" churches were overwhelmingly conservative, both theologically and politically. "Non-denominational" really does represent a specific alignment.

Well, I’m in the Portland suburbs and the biggest nondenominational church in my town called Journey Church, while somewhat theologically conservative (Biblical literacy etc.) is decidedly not a MAGA Trump type place. I know various teachers who attend and they are your typical Democrats. It isn’t my cup of tea. But they seem to make a pretty big effort to stay out of partisan politics and attract members from across the political spectrum. And mostly focus on local charity stuff like food banks, meals on wheels, that sort of thing.

There are people who do research and study the political and other beliefs of people by denominational affiliation, and the "non-denominational" alignment is the one that is the largest bloc of Trump support in the last 2 elections. Obviously it's not 100%.

[R7ehr]

I think there is something else going on as well. Around here in this part of the world, nondenominational churches tend to be the projects of egotistical empire-builder type preachers who are seeking to build their own personal religious empire. A typical big Baptist church is an established institution that will hire ministers who come and go but who are not larger than the church itself. Mennonite churches are very much the same. Whereas many nondenominational churches are the personal project of one single preacher who is building his own empire. And without who the church will often basically collapse.

It’s quite common in the conservative Mennonite/Annabaptist world to see an influential and/or ambitious man to start “his own” church. These are never affiliated with any broader church group/conference/fellowship. They enjoy no oversight. Often characterized by a lot of short term attendees and further splinters when the people disagree with the leader and there is no course of action to mediate from the broader conference.

[JohnL]

I think there is something else going on as well. Around here in this part of the world, nondenominational churches tend to be the projects of egotistical empire-builder type preachers who are seeking to build their own personal religious empire. A typical big Baptist church is an established institution that will hire ministers who come and go but who are not larger than the church itself. Mennonite churches are very much the same. Whereas many nondenominational churches are the personal project of one single preacher who is building his own empire. And without who the church will often basically collapse.

It’s quite common in the conservative Mennonite/Annabaptist world to see an influential and/or ambitious man to start “his own” church. These are never affiliated with any broader church group/conference/fellowship. They enjoy no oversight. Often characterized by a lot of short term attendees and further splinters when the people disagree with the leader and there is no course of action to mediate from the broader conference.

I've heard the term personality cult to describe these situations.

[barnhart]

It’s quite common in the conservative Mennonite/Annabaptist world to see an influential and/or ambitious man to start “his own” church. These are never affiliated with any broader church group/conference/fellowship. They enjoy no oversight. Often characterized by a lot of short term attendees and further splinters when the people disagree with the leader and there is no course of action to mediate from the broader conference.

How many of these have you observed.

[R7ehr]

It’s quite common in the conservative Mennonite/Annabaptist world to see an influential and/or ambitious man to start “his own” church. These are never affiliated with any broader church group/conference/fellowship. They enjoy no oversight. Often characterized by a lot of short term attendees and further splinters when the people disagree with the leader and there is no course of action to mediate from the broader conference.

How many of these have you observed.

I can think of 5-6 in my state. For comparison, in the same years, probably no more than this number have been started with traditional congressional or fellowship oversight.