Poll: "I am smart papers"

[barnhart]

“If we were humble, nothing would change us-neither praise nor discouragement. If someone were to criticize us, we would not feel discouraged. If someone would praise us, we also would not feel proud."
- Mother Teresa

[Neto]

“If we were humble, nothing would change us-neither praise nor discouragement. If someone were to criticize us, we would not feel discouraged. If someone would praise us, we also would not feel proud."
- Mother Teresa

Humility.

Earlier this evening I remembered a silly song we used to sing back when I was in Jr High or maybe HS. I think it was called "Putting on the Style".

One verse says:
Young man home from college,
makes a big display,
with some big jaw-breaker
that he can hardly say.
Can't be found in Webster's,
and won't be for awhile,
but everybody knows he only -
Putting on the Style.

Chorus:
Puttin' on the agony,
Puttin' on the style,
That's what everybody is doing all the while.
And as I look around me
it makes stop and smile
to see so many people puttin' on the style.

[Ken]

Having been around college admissions for a long time I would say that people go to college for basically three reasons:

#1 Pedigree. A lot of wealthy are obsessed with pedigree and that is why they are so obsessed with where their children attend college and getting them into the Ivies or near-Ivies. Elite jobs in law, finance, and also academia are very much about WHERE you went to school and not WHAT you studied or how qualified you actually are.

#2 To earn qualifications. College (or a specific degree) is required for a vast number of middle class professional jobs. Nursing, teaching, CPA/Accounting, engineering, and it is a threshold requirement for a lot of private sector business jobs that they basically use a sorting tool. If, for example, you want to be a teacher or nurse, WHERE you went to school is is pretty immaterial if it is a legitimate credentialed institution. And local is probably better than distant and higher rated.

#3 To learn for the sake of learning. This is by far the smallest group. These are the folks who spend years studying ancient Greek, Egyptian hieroglyphs, Medieval poetry, art history, or some arcane field of science. Knowledge for the sake of knowledge is admirable, but it doesn't often pay bills. So this tends to be a pastime of the wealthy or upper middle-class.

You can tell what people's values are by how they ask the question.

People who as WHERE your child is going to college are pretty much in the first category. Obsessed by pedigree and social status. The person who write the article in the original post is clearly hanging out with these folks. People who are in the second category tend to ask WHAT your child plans to do with their life and not so much WHERE. And people in the 3rd category? Well they are rare and more often than not discourage others to follow in their footsteps. I don't know how many PhDs I have encountered who say "Yeah...don't follow in my footsteps, only misery will await you"

[Bootstrap]

I agree with most of the original post.

The title implies that a college degree is primarily a way of saying "I am smart". I suspect perhaps Steve does not have a college degree, and that comes out in the title? I don't think that's the purpose of a college degree, and I think a college education is a good option for some people. But a person with a college degree may not be as smart as another person without one, and most jobs really do not require a college degree. My father in law is a civil engineer who is extremely intelligent and experienced, but does not have a college degree. I know some great programmers who do not have college degrees. I know many tradesmen who are expert at things I cannot do.

Some people seem to have a chip on their shoulder about not having a college degree. They may imagine that people with college degrees look down on them or consider them less-than. Some people with college degrees may be like that, but most aren't. I think all of us should try to avoid turning college degrees into something divisive, whether or not we have them.

[Bootstrap]

My son and his friends are all seniors planning their next steps. Among them are future electricians, mechanics, entrepreneurs, military recruits, and yes, college students too.
!!! SNIP !!!
And then, whatever answer they give you, respond with the same enthusiasm you'd offer if they said "Harvard." Because their path—whatever it is—deserves nothing less than our wholehearted celebration.

It's the military recruits I struggle with. I don't wish that for anyone.

[Szdfan]

My son and his friends are all seniors planning their next steps. Among them are future electricians, mechanics, entrepreneurs, military recruits, and yes, college students too.
!!! SNIP !!!
And then, whatever answer they give you, respond with the same enthusiasm you'd offer if they said "Harvard." Because their path—whatever it is—deserves nothing less than our wholehearted celebration.

It's the military recruits I struggle with. I don't wish that for anyone.

I wrestle with that too, especially when I realize that for some of my students it might be the best or the least bad option.

[Neto]

My son and his friends are all seniors planning their next steps. Among them are future electricians, mechanics, entrepreneurs, military recruits, and yes, college students too.
!!! SNIP !!!
And then, whatever answer they give you, respond with the same enthusiasm you'd offer if they said "Harvard." Because their path—whatever it is—deserves nothing less than our wholehearted celebration.

It's the military recruits I struggle with. I don't wish that for anyone.

I wrestle with that too, especially when I realize that for some of my students it might be the best or the least bad option.

Back enough years in the past that the USA was not closely involved in any war anywhere at the time, a guy from the 'Old Mennonite' congregation that met around 35 miles from where I grew up, wanting to be a missionary pilot, decided that the best way to get flight training and experience would be to join the Air Force. He wanted to be a helicopter pilot, and was apparently good enough that he was chosen for that area of training. Then some war or another broke out, and he was sent into the conflict. He was shot down and died in that foreign land.

[temporal1]

It's the military recruits I struggle with. I don't wish that for anyone.

I wrestle with that too, especially when I realize that for some of my students it might be the best or the least bad option.

Back enough years in the past that the USA was not closely involved in any war anywhere at the time, a guy from the 'Old Mennonite' congregation that met around 35 miles from where I grew up, wanting to be a missionary pilot, decided that the best way to get flight training and experience would be to join the Air Force. He wanted to be a helicopter pilot, and was apparently good enough that he was chosen for that area of training. Then some war or another broke out, and he was sent into the conflict. He was shot down and died in that foreign land.

Neto, i missed your post here. So sad. Death doesn’t respect our human understanding or wishes. Or order.
In my entire life, i have never believed the majority entering the military, by draft or voluntarily, are seeking violence. The hope is to be of the many who avoid it.

[temporal1]

2026

NPR / Jeff Selingo on his new book 'Dream School: Finding the College That's Right for You'
https://www.npr.org/2025/09/10/nx-s1-53 ... ht-for-you

NPR's Michel Martin speaks with journalist and author Jeff Selingo about his new book
“Dream School: Finding the College That's Right for You."

MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:

What if I told you that elite doesn't mean best.
That the dream school you have in mind for you or your child's college education doesn't exist. In other words, that there is not a single perfect, ideally prestigious match for you or your kid that will put you in a trajectory for lifetime success. And, oh, by the way, if you think the whole college admissions process is crazy, you're not crazy. It really is. All that is according to journalist and author Jeffrey Selingo, who has spent many years reporting on the inner workings of higher ed admissions. He writes about all this in his latest book "Dream School: Finding The College That's Right For You," and he's with us now. Jeffrey Selingo, thanks so much for joining us.

JEFFREY SELINGO: It's great to be here. Thank you.

MARTIN: So first, let's talk about just how crazy college admissions has gotten.
Without giving my age, I applied to four schools.
Those were the schools my college adviser told me to apply to. I did. You did the same. What, four?

SELINGO: Four colleges, yeah. Yeah.

MARTIN: Four schools. So why is it now people are applying to 30? ..

[the-real-steve]

Seven months later, I revisit this thread.

Last year, I went back to school, sort of. I got my Class A CDL. I no longer have a standing desk and a Raymond powered jack to drive around. My work space is a Kenworth.

I do not regret doing this even though I took the long way around. I am in my late 40's and learning something new came with a price. But it can be done.