JohnH wrote: ↑Sun Jun 15, 2025 9:58 am
In addition, conservative Anabaptists would have to accept:
- accepting that ordained men attend seminaries/college first
- accepting alcohol consumption and drunkenness, including renting out the church hall to others where alcohol will be consumed to excess
- accepting immodest & worldly attire for women
- accepting tobacco / vaping consumption
In addition Orthodoxy is essentially an “ethnic” faith, but different ethnicities than Anabaptists typically come from.
In general, yes. Most of Orthodoxy is an ethnic faith, just like it is for Plain Anabaptists.
However, like Plain Anabaptists, a small percentage of Orthodox congregations are being really intentional about bringing in non-ethnic folks into the church.
0 x
A wee little man can’t say, I’m sorry. A big man owns his mistakes and apologizes.
A wee little man trusts himself and his own discernment. A big man is humble enough to know that he needs the counsel and input of others.
I would beg to differ with some of the assumptions the speaker makes about both 'early' and current anabaptists. (Or else I personally just do not fit in.)
Baptism - I do not think that it is 'just symbolism'. I don't think the mode used matters, but I also don't accept the 'Evangelical' position that it is a 'testimony to the world, or the church, etc.' I think that we should do it simply because that's what God wants. I DO also think that there is a whole lot more to it than even just that - that this obedience to something that we (I) do not really understand opens an avenue through which God does something that goes way beyond what we/I realize.
Communion - I would say much the same thing as above, except that I think I understand a bit more of this one. I think that it is both 'vertical' - between us as individuals and God and also between us as a 'congregation of God', the body of Christ - and also 'horizontal' - between each of us a different members of the Body. This last part is what I think the 'Evangelicals' miss out on, that they do not anticipate or understand. (I am not speaking out of a void here - I attended an evangelical Bible college, and spent my missionary career in close association with a wide range of 'people of faith', Episcopalians, Charismatics, Baptists of various stripes, Lutherans, etc.
There is, I'm sure, also things that happen in the spiritual world during this observance of which I am unaware. I'm fine with this lack of understanding, because, again, we are commanded to do this, and I trust God. He can do anything He likes in my life, at any time He chooses. (I may well ask some Why questions, but I don't think He minds, that He appreciates the conversation, even when we are voicing our lack of comprehension.)
Re: Tobit. That is probably the craziest book in all of the Apocrypha. If you want to start with the book that came closest to being accepted in the Hebrew Scriptures, start with Sirach. (The Maccabees contain lots of valuable historical information, the background to much about the New Testament world, the 'Fullness of Time' into which Jesus stepped. Esdras, I don't recall now what all is in those.)
But the purity of the Church is the reason we (probably also the Swiss Brethren, but certainly the 'Russian Mennonites') became 'people groups' ethnicities. (The persecutions, and the separation from the main society that resulted.) But that alone does not give reason for placing such extreme value on that ideal, to die for it, and be driven out of home and community. It is commanded in Scripture. To give up that would be to give up Christ.
What pray tell is wrong with the book of Tobit? I love that book. His ways are not our ways I realize.
Amish adapt a wedding ritual from Tobit. An Amish man who publishes “The Vendor” had 2 articles separate issues encouraging the apocrypha and they were excellent articles. I believe he is a bishop (or minister)
JayP wrote: ↑Sat Jun 14, 2025 8:12 pmI think folks will be surprised by the amount of standing they are gonna experience!
Our back and knees will be a lot better then.
There is some kneeling in EO.
We were advised to attend a Russian EO church for our first visit to EO. Cleveland OH area.
The men stand on one side of Church, the women on the other side, There were chairs along the wall for those needing to sit. There was a nice sign out at entrance requesting women to cover their heads in the church and to abstain from wearing pants do it was nice to see women in dresses with heads covered. It was ethnic yet very nice people greeted us.
It was over 2 hours of standing.
We have visited many other EOs & service itself goes the same way but not all divide men from women, not all cover their heads- Russian was closest to the “old” way yet Russia didn’t embrace Orthodoxy until 1054 A.D I think?
