Bethel Church

[JohnH]

JohnH. I freely admit I don’t get you, find you annoying, but…..are you actually endorsing this crap.?

I never endorsed it. I simply said I don't agree with criticizing a church because they believe in miracles.

I mean, your own church is still comfortable with people who seek spiritual benefits, or even physical healings, from being in the presence of relics from saints or other departed people. There is a shrine near where I live (the Rhoda Wise shrine) where people go to seek healing. I try not to condemn or look down on this too much, even though it is very similar to the "grave soaking" allegations.

Now let me be clear. I would never call any real religion “crap” out of the desire to be respectful, that even if you do not agree it is not a way to be persuasive. But how many “churches “ like this do we have to see before we wise up?

"Before we wise up?" Can you detail how what Bethel is doing is any different from the Roman Catholic Church and its many shrines, relics, and so on?

All one has to do to evaluate evangelical groups is ask a few questions?
If you answer yes to any….then run.

1. Are the raking in huge dollars and the leader lives so good?

Bethel is not raking in huge dollars. Nearly all their revenue these days comes from their music label because people used to like to buy their CDs, and nowadays people like to stream their music on YouTube, Spotify, etc. and they get $$ for that. Their leadership also makes money from selling books. That's not "raking in huge dollars".

2. Do wives and children just happen to also be soooo godly that they get positions of power?

Bethel has an ordination model where husbands and wives serve together as co-pastors. This is quite common in evangelical churches. Personally I think this is more biblical than celibate priests, but that's just my opinion.

3. Is there a lack of accountability/oversight where people NOT linked to the leader/founder can call out irregularities?

Bethel does not have a lack of accountability/oversight. They are currently a network of about 5 churches and have relationships of mutual accountability with each other. Their churches also have a typical evangelical style of an elder board.

It is true that Bethel is a Pentecostal type of church, particularly the charismatic style. They have certain beliefs about certain things that I don't share.

Sheesh. Why do I think it’s only a matter of time until we read about either sexual improprieties, financial rip offs, etc.?

Interesting accusation. Has the Roman Catholic Church experienced sexual improprieties or financial rip offs? If you're interested, I can tell you about what happened in my diocese, which involved stolen payroll taxes, high schoolers who raised money to rebuild a cathedral yet the money raised all had to go to the IRS, embezzlement used to buy fine clothes, expensive hotel stays, and flying lessons...

[JohnH]

I don’t think Faith Builders is selling the ability to perform miracles.

Neither is Bethel.

[Ernie]

The Blessings of Hope organization has grown exponentially to the point where it has completely overshadowed the other projects that the Lapp brothers are or were involved with. At this point it is a sizeable network of warehouses, trucks, processing and distribution centers that take food donations and repackage them for use by many other organizations. They have big name recognition and do good work. I've supported them in the past.

Would you also support a Bethel ministry doing similar kind of work?

[Ernie]

Missing from Josh's list is the time the bros were part of a self-described 'Amish delegation' to Israel to apologize to the Jews for the silence of the Amish during the Holocaust, stating in part, "We, the Amish and Anabaptist people turned away from Jewish nation, while they were in their darkest hour of need. We hardened our hearts against them, we left them - never lifting our voices in protest against the atrocities that were committed against them. We want to publicly repent of this and acknowledge our support of Israel."

And weren't they also involved in some reconciliation/apology efforts with Protestants in Europe?

[mike]

The Blessings of Hope organization has grown exponentially to the point where it has completely overshadowed the other projects that the Lapp brothers are or were involved with. At this point it is a sizeable network of warehouses, trucks, processing and distribution centers that take food donations and repackage them for use by many other organizations. They have big name recognition and do good work. I've supported them in the past.

Would you also support a Bethel ministry doing similar kind of work?

Yes, I could see myself giving to support a specific project if there was an urgent need and I felt they were using the money as advertised. If I remember correctly it was emergency food delivery for a natural disaster.

[joshuabgood]

The Blessings of Hope organization has grown exponentially to the point where it has completely overshadowed the other projects that the Lapp brothers are or were involved with. At this point it is a sizeable network of warehouses, trucks, processing and distribution centers that take food donations and repackage them for use by many other organizations. They have big name recognition and do good work. I've supported them in the past.

Would you also support a Bethel ministry doing similar kind of work?

Yes, I could see myself giving to support a specific project if there was an urgent need and I felt they were using the money as advertised. If I remember correctly it was emergency food delivery for a natural disaster.

I wouldn't say I wouldn't support them either, but it does dim my enthusiasma bit in both cases. When the Lapp brothers team closely with Wallnau and Trump it makes me wince...same with Bill Johnson and Bethel Redding crowd.

I'll support what I can.

[Ernie]

Would you also support a Bethel ministry doing similar kind of work?

Yes, I could see myself giving to support a specific project if there was an urgent need and I felt they were using the money as advertised. If I remember correctly it was emergency food delivery for a natural disaster.

I wouldn't say I wouldn't support them either, but it does dim my enthusiasma bit in both cases. When the Lapp brothers team closely with Wallnau and Trump it makes me wince...same with Bill Johnson and Bethel Redding crowd.

I'll support what I can.

I think I would only support either one, if there were no better options to support, and the need was dire/immediate.

Same is true for Catholic, Evangelical, mainline Anabaptist, and LMC endeavors.

[mike]

Would you also support a Bethel ministry doing similar kind of work?

Yes, I could see myself giving to support a specific project if there was an urgent need and I felt they were using the money as advertised. If I remember correctly it was emergency food delivery for a natural disaster.

I wouldn't say I wouldn't support them either, but it does dim my enthusiasma bit in both cases. When the Lapp brothers team closely with Wallnau and Trump it makes me wince...same with Bill Johnson and Bethel Redding crowd.

I'll support what I can.

One reason I didn’t feel like donating to them again was getting a little swamped with marketing materials including personal phone calls afterward. But I still feel they do good work, and if a church wants to get food to give away to a needy area, BOH is a good place to get a load of product. I believe sometimes there is a reasonable fee for the load and sometimes there is free product available.

[mike]

Yes, I could see myself giving to support a specific project if there was an urgent need and I felt they were using the money as advertised. If I remember correctly it was emergency food delivery for a natural disaster.

I wouldn't say I wouldn't support them either, but it does dim my enthusiasma bit in both cases. When the Lapp brothers team closely with Wallnau and Trump it makes me wince...same with Bill Johnson and Bethel Redding crowd.

I'll support what I can.

I think I would only support either one, if there were no better options to support, and the need was dire/immediate.

Same is true for Catholic, Evangelical, mainline Anabaptist, and LMC endeavors.

Would you support a fund drive for a local fire company or EMS unit, or other orgs that are completely non-religious in nature?

[barnhart]

Would you support a fund drive for a local fire company or EMS unit, or other orgs that are completely non-religious in nature?

I would rather support that than people who favor church and state holding hands. And even worse are those who want believers to take over government to control it like 7 mountain people. The first feels idolatrous and the latter satanic.