Mainline/Mainstream Anabaptists

[Nomad]

But if group affiliation is unimportant.. why not share it? What's the big deal?

So your saying I have 2 choices...

Category 1) If I answer who I worship with, that shows that I think affiliation doesn't matter.

Category 2) If I don't answer then that has to mean I do think it matters.

Is that the 2 categories I have to chose between in order for you label me correctly?

I mean, if it's a big deal to keep your affiliation secret... then it must matter quite a bit to you.

Ok, you win. It matters to me...1-0 your lead.

[JohnH]

That’s fine. It does show that group categories, etc do actually matter.

It reminds me of two people in a romantic relationship who say they aren’t calling themselves boyfriend / girlfriend “because we don’t like labels”.

[Nomad]

That’s fine. It does show that group categories, etc do actually matter.

It reminds me of two people in a romantic relationship who say they aren’t calling themselves boyfriend / girlfriend “because we don’t like labels”.

I guess my mind wasn't going to what churches people affiliate with. I was thinking more along the lines of people who spend hours graphing out Anabaptist churches they perceive to be "progressive/ mainline". Or for example, if I would make a list of all the churches I would assume are "Anabaptist Christian Nationalist" based solely on individual interactions I've had. I've heard about 5 different versions of defining "Christian Nationalism" so it seems like a vague political term where I am labeling someone on how I choose to perceive them...and then claiming I'm the authority on "who people are" seems a little bit off to me.

[JimFoxvog]

I note that MC USA and its affiliates generally don't have any reticence about issuing statements about what kind of laws governments should pass, protesting governments, and so on - except mysteriously on the topic of abortion. For example, they'll take a very strong stance against the death penalty, but do not show the same enthusiasm about passing laws banning abortion.

This might help with the mysterious part of it.

Many, including myself, make a distinction between what is done by the state, such as war and the death penalty, and what the state does not prohibit, such as abortion. The first is done by our representatives with our tax dollars. The other is allowing people freedom to make their own choices.

Personally, I lean toward prohibiting abortion except when it is needed to protect the life of the mother or prevent serious physical harm. I think that protecting people, including the unborn, is a valid purpose of government. There is, however, a reasonable argument about whether the fetus should be given full human rights.

[eccentric_rambler]

There is, however, a reasonable argument about whether the fetus should be given full human rights.

There is, however, no argument to be made that an unborn child has less right to live than a born child.

[JohnH]

As an example of trends in this group, from Anabaptist World:

John Linscheid accepted an apology from Western District Conference of Mennonite Church USA on May 11 at Peace Mennonite Church in Lawrence, Kan., 41 years after the conference rescinded his ministerial credential because he is gay.

The service of repentance and restoration marked the second time an MC USA conference has restored the ministerial credentials of an LGBTQ+ minister. In 2023, Central District Conference reinstated the credential of Keith Schrag, who had relinquished it in 1987 while pastor of Ames Mennonite Church in Iowa.

One identifying characteristic is that they are often redefining what is right or wrong. So, in 1984, their confessions would have not had room for an active homosexual in an ordained position at all. By 2023, they are “repenting” of doing so, as their definitions of right and wrong tend to follow whatever broader society’s is.

[HondurasKeiser]

As an example of trends in this group, from Anabaptist World:

John Linscheid accepted an apology from Western District Conference of Mennonite Church USA on May 11 at Peace Mennonite Church in Lawrence, Kan., 41 years after the conference rescinded his ministerial credential because he is gay.

The service of repentance and restoration marked the second time an MC USA conference has restored the ministerial credentials of an LGBTQ+ minister. In 2023, Central District Conference reinstated the credential of Keith Schrag, who had relinquished it in 1987 while pastor of Ames Mennonite Church in Iowa.

One identifying characteristic is that they are often redefining what is right or wrong. So, in 1984, their confessions would have not had room for an active homosexual in an ordained position at all. By 2023, they are “repenting” of doing so, as their definitions of right and wrong tend to follow whatever broader society’s is.

Of the MWR/AWR Schrag Family?

[Pelerin]

Are you contrasting this with devout Evangelicals who are respectable people in town, but would not participate in pride parades, etc.?

Had some things come up but getting back to this:

Not quite. It’s not that ask the “respectable citizens” will be mainline it that the mainline will tend to mirror the values of local respectable society. Put it this way: if a mainline church in a town is covered in rainbow flags that town probably also has a pride parade. If the local mainline church would frown on that sort of display, but might happily host a gay wedding chances are more that the town doesn’t have a pride parade.

Basically I don’t think you can really nail “mainline” churches down to a set of standards they held at a certain point in time like you were considering above. Instead I’m suggesting a way you can capture the “spirit” of mainline values. And then if you want to extend that to Anabaptist denominations you’d see which ones reflect similar values.

[Ernie]

I am, amazed that folks think LMC has any juice left. The difference at best between LMC and their more liberal cousins is 20-25 years.

LMC is not going to follow MC USA. The most progressive churches left in 2017 to join Atlantic Coast Conference of MC USA. My LMC church was historically one of the more progressive LMC churches, and it's become more conservative since LMC left MCUSA and their progressive members left. LMC ordains women, even allowing women to serve as bishops on a team, but only about 10% of LMC pastors are women.

Are women bishops in LMC allowed to serve as lead bishops?

[cooper]

Are women bishops in LMC allowed to serve as lead bishops?

I'm not aware that "lead bishop" is a concept in LMC. Female bishops cannot serve alone, but as part of a team. The female bishop on the New York City bishop team is prominent in LMC. She frequently speaks at Leadership Assemblies, etc. I don't know what her working relationship with the other two male bishops on the team is. When Keith Weaver retired as conference moderator, a Bishop Elder team of 4 bishops took his place. The Bishop Elder team includes a woman.