Although I think some of the biggest charlatans like Paula White and the Bethel Church folks like Bill Johnson and Sean Feucht tend to run independent non-denominational churches because that keeps them outside the supervision and oversight of any larger and more established organization.
Bethel Church is its own large, established organization, with 5 campuses in 2 states and attendance in excess of 10,000. For comparison, MC USA's attendance is around 50,000.
I would hesitate to call Bill Johnson a "charlatan". Is there something he's done that makes you say that?
Although I think some of the biggest charlatans like Paula White and the Bethel Church folks like Bill Johnson and Sean Feucht tend to run independent non-denominational churches because that keeps them outside the supervision and oversight of any larger and more established organization.
Bethel Church is its own large, established organization, with 5 campuses in 2 states and attendance in excess of 10,000. For comparison, MC USA's attendance is around 50,000.
I would hesitate to call Bill Johnson a "charlatan". Is there something he's done that makes you say that?
Where do you want to start? How about praying for the resurrection of a child? https://wapo.st/45eq2b3
While it may seem like an unusual practice, this is something that has been done in other circles for centuries, and is no different than Catholics who collect pieces of bones from departed saints.
While it may seem like an unusual practice, this is something that has been done in other circles for centuries, and is no different than Catholics who collect pieces of bones from departed saints.
What is your threshold or criteria for determining if some religious practice is fraudulent if not the New Testament?
Do you have any?
1 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
While it may seem like an unusual practice, this is something that has been done in other circles for centuries, and is no different than Catholics who collect pieces of bones from departed saints.
What is your threshold or criteria for determining if some religious practice is fraudulent if not the New Testament?
Do you have any?
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
While it may seem like an unusual practice, this is something that has been done in other circles for centuries, and is no different than Catholics who collect pieces of bones from departed saints.
What is your threshold or criteria for determining if some religious practice is fraudulent if not the New Testament?
Do you have any?
The New Testament has multiple instances of resurrecting the dead, including a young girl just like the above story.
While it may seem like an unusual practice, this is something that has been done in other circles for centuries, and is no different than Catholics who collect pieces of bones from departed saints.
What is your threshold or criteria for determining if some religious practice is fraudulent if not the New Testament?
Do you have any?
The New Testament has multiple instances of resurrecting the dead, including a young girl just like the above story.
Five instances. Three are miracles conducted by Jesus. And there is one story involving Paul and one involving Peter. Nowhere in the New Testament does Jesus or Paul teach that people can raise the dead by prayer. Nor is there any teaching in the New Testament that people can learn to conduct their own magical miracles if they go to some "Christian Hogwarts Academy" that happens also to be a major multi-million dollar moneymaker for the Bethel Church.
I would never have taken you for a cultural relativist who would suggest that any beliefs are reasonable as long as people believe them. Do you allow for any beliefs as long as they are heartfelt? Or do you have standards and criteria for determining what is legitimate and what is not?
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Sorry, but I don't see something wrong with people who believe that miracles are possible and pray for things like healing. I suspect you have other reasons you are critical of Bethel; discussion of that would belong in a different subforum.
JohnH wrote: ↑Sun Jun 08, 2025 11:58 pm
Sorry, but I don't see something wrong with people who believe that miracles are possible and pray for things like healing. I suspect you have other reasons you are critical of Bethel; discussion of that would belong in a different subforum.
What I said that seemed to set you off was that people like Paula White and the bunch from Bethel tend to run nondenominational unaffiliated churches because they can get away with more nonsense when they aren't under the supervision and authority of some larger denomination.
It isn't a coincidence that Bethel withdrew from the Assemblies of God denomination after Bill Johnson joined them and took over leadership. That is when the craziness and grifting like their multi million dollar miracles academy really took off on a whole new level.
1 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
JohnH wrote: ↑Sun Jun 08, 2025 11:58 pm
Sorry, but I don't see something wrong with people who believe that miracles are possible and pray for things like healing. I suspect you have other reasons you are critical of Bethel; discussion of that would belong in a different subforum.
What I said that seemed to set you off was that people like Paula White and the bunch from Bethel tend to run nondenominational unaffiliated churches because they can get away with more nonsense when they aren't under the supervision and authority of some larger denomination.
It isn't a coincidence that Bethel withdrew from the Assemblies of God denomination after Bill Johnson joined them and took over leadership. That is when the craziness and grifting like their multi million dollar miracles academy really took off on a whole new level.
I’ve elsewhere made clear my opinion on Paula White.
I was specifically addressing your slander of Bethel Redding/Bethel Cleveland.