Classifying Anabaptists

[Ken]

Homestead Heritage says: https://heritagepress.com/our-beliefs/

Though we’re not officially affiliated with any larger denomination, our agrarian Christian community shares many core beliefs with various Christian traditions, including Baptists, Methodists, Pentecostals and Mennonites. Our beliefs, lifestyle and values are perhaps most heavily influenced by the Anabaptist tradition.

Generally speaking, Baptists, Methodists, and Pentecostals are not Anabaptists. As I said, they may be moving in that direction since they say they are influenced by Anabaptist tradition, but they don't claim to be Anabaptists.

They also really have nothing at all in common with actual neo-Anabaptists like Greg Boyd.

Followers of the Way say: https://www.followers-of-the-way.org/about

We are a group that emphasizes the Word of God and obedience to it. For the historically minded, you will find that our teachings are close to the ante-Nicene church, as well as the persecuted, suffering church throughout the ages (the Waldensians, the Lollards, and the early Anabaptists). But we point to Scripture rather than a church document for the source of our understanding.

I have had someone in a position of leadership in FotW tell me he is not an Anabaptist and never will be.

Sattler College says:https://sattler.edu/about-us/

Sattler College provides an education that is grounded in the historic Christian faith. This encompasses the traditional beliefs of the church with respect to doctrine and practice. While the College has no specific denominational affiliation, the beliefs upon which it is established correspond most closely with the persecuted, suffering churches of history, such as the ante-Nicene church, the Waldensians, the Wycliffites, and the Anabaptists.

That also isn't claiming to be Anabaptist.

The term Neo-Anabaptist at least as it is defined in Wikipedia would seem to apply to such groups: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Anabaptism

Neo-Anabaptism is a Christian theological movement in the late twentieth and early twenty-first century inspired by classical Anabaptism. According to Stuart Murray, neo-Anabaptists "identify with the Anabaptist tradition and are happy to be known as Anabaptists, but have no historic or cultural links with any Anabaptist-related denomination".

Well, that wouldn't apply to FotW since a large fraction of their membership are ethnic Anabaptists.

Fine, maybe a different category called "Anabaptist-Adjacent" or something similar then to encompass those new groups who appear to be borrowing heavily from Anabaptist traditions and theology. But who don't have roots in one of the historic threads of Anabaptism.

[Ernie]

A defining characteristic of Conservative Mennonites is that they do use cars and don't rely on horse and buggy.

That's a distinguishing characteristic that separates them from the Old Order Amish. It is not a defining characteristic, as it describes pretty much anyone in society at large.

Some Old Order Mennonites drive cars such as Weaverland Conference, Ohio-Indiana Wislers, Markham-Waterloo, Old German Baptist Brethren - Main Group, Old German Baptist Brethren -New Group (which is more conservative/old order than the main group)

[Ernie]

The term Neo-Anabaptist at least as it is defined in Wikipedia would seem to apply to such groups: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Anabaptism

Neo-Anabaptism is a Christian theological movement in the late twentieth and early twenty-first century inspired by classical Anabaptism. According to Stuart Murray, neo-Anabaptists "identify with the Anabaptist tradition and are happy to be known as Anabaptists, but have no historic or cultural links with any Anabaptist-related denomination".

Not everyone in FOTW is happy to be known as an Anabaptist.

Correct.

But I think of them as Neo-Conservative Anabaptists since the founders got their orientation primarily from the Anabaptists, and since the majority of their recruits are from Anabaptist churches.

See this chart. https://towardthebetter.org/wp-content/ ... eekers.pdf

[Ernie]

I would suggest that grouping and labeling is almost a characteristic of Anabaptists themselves. That is what the "Mennonite Game" is after all. And most Anabaptists I meet or am related to seem quick and eager to put people into boxes based on their dress or last name or who their grandparents are, etc. etc. My elderly aunts can pigeonhole someone at a glance from 100 paces. You don't see that same sort of obsession from say Catholics.

Yes, most Anabaptists enjoy this. But I find that most other Christians are the same way.
Recently I gave a presentation on Anabaptists and a Jew, Evangelical, and Catholic that we work with didn't want to miss it because they want to know who we are and where we fit in the Christian religious world.
In fact, Augustinians here in our area that I partner with in various humanitarian efforts insist on giving us some brand name. e.g. "Would it be ok if we refer to you as 'the Mennonites?'"
An Orthodox lady who recently began attending church with us wants to call us the Mennonites. Some want to call us Amish.
They are not content with us just calling ourselves Christians.
I don't have a problem with this since most of us are ethnically Mennonite and we share a lot in common.

Just saying that it is a very natural curiosity among a certain segment of the human population.

[Ernie]

Perhaps add a new group titled "Neo-Anabaptists"

To encompass newly formed groups that claim Anabaptist theology but do not have roots in one of the historic Anabaptist traditions. I'm thinking of groups like Homestead Heritage in Waco or Followers of the Way in Boston.

Homestead Heritage is not an Anabaptist group and has never claimed to be, although I understand they may be moving in that direction. Followers of the Way doesn't claim to be Anabaptist either.

While they might not boldly claim to be Anabaptist in their tagline or something like that, when I interviewed them about 15 years ago, they self- identified as Anabaptist.

Statements on their website are about as close to calling yourself Anabaptist as a group could get.

"We find our spiritual roots in the 500-year-old peace-loving Anabaptist tradition, which stresses simplicity and an absolute commitment to nonviolence. Nothing could be more grievous to us or antithetical to our entire way of life than innocent children abused by criminally cruel and selfish adults."

https://response.homesteadheritage.com/ ... -for-wfaa/

What We Believe
Though we’re not officially affiliated with any larger denomination, our agrarian Christian community shares many core beliefs with various Christian traditions, including Baptists, Methodists, Pentecostals and Mennonites. Our beliefs, lifestyle and values are perhaps most heavily influenced by the Anabaptist tradition.

https://www.homesteadheritage.com/beliefs/

Journey to Colorado
Each new level of participating brought unforeseen changes in their thinking, their feelings, their attitudes about life. So their relationships with each other, with creation and with God began to change, too. It came to them slowly that they were on a journey, not just back to their Anabaptist roots, but back to life, a journey back down to earth with their bodies and back up to heaven with their souls.

https://heritagepress.com/our-history/

At the least, they are glad for way more association than other neo-Conservative Anabaptist groups who like to pretend that they don't have Anabaptist roots.

What I care about is people following Jesus and I don't really care what labels they give themselves. If the words Mennonite and Anabaptist are eventually usurped by other terms, I won't feel bad at all. It may even be good for us so that we don't trust in things like I am of Cephas, I am of Paul, etc. And there is much within Anabaptism that I am embarrassed about.

But when people are in reaction, and are running, they will go to great effort to try to distance themselves from influences that formed them, and the only people they impress are others in reaction and others who are running.

[Ken]

I would suggest that grouping and labeling is almost a characteristic of Anabaptists themselves. That is what the "Mennonite Game" is after all. And most Anabaptists I meet or am related to seem quick and eager to put people into boxes based on their dress or last name or who their grandparents are, etc. etc. My elderly aunts can pigeonhole someone at a glance from 100 paces. You don't see that same sort of obsession from say Catholics.

Yes, most Anabaptists enjoy this. But I find that most other Christians are the same way.
Recently I gave a presentation on Anabaptists and a Jew, Evangelical, and Catholic that we work with didn't want to miss it because they want to know who we are and where we fit in the Christian religious world.
In fact, Augustinians here in our area that I partner with in various humanitarian efforts insist on giving us some brand name. e.g. "Would it be ok if we refer to you as 'the Mennonites?'"
An Orthodox lady who recently began attending church with us wants to call us the Mennonites. Some want to call us Amish.
They are not content with us just calling ourselves Christians.
I don't have a problem with this since most of us are ethnically Mennonite and we share a lot in common.

Just saying that it is a very natural curiosity among a certain segment of the human population.

Oh sure.

I was thinking more of how my Catholic mother-in-law doesn't go around trying to pick out who might be Catholic in the same way that my elderly Menno aunts like to play "spot the Menno" when they are out and about.

[JohnL]

Ernie - Are the Apostolic Christian churches Anabaptist? How are they classified?

[Ernie]

Ernie - Are the Apostolic Christian churches Anabaptist? How are they classified?

In a broad sense they are considered Anabaptist.

But just like many old order and conservative Mennonites and Amish don't identify as Anabaptist (they save that term for the early Anabaptists), so many Apostolics do not consider themselves Anabaptist.

[JohnL]

Ernie - Are the Apostolic Christian churches Anabaptist? How are they classified?

In a broad sense they are considered Anabaptist.

But just like many old order and conservative Mennonites and Amish don't identify as Anabaptist (they save that term for the early Anabaptists), so many Apostolics do not consider themselves Anabaptist.

Thank you, Ernie. That’s a good, straightforward explanation. I appreciate it.
Do you know whether they believe in the free Will of the believer?

[ohio jones]

Ernie - Are the Apostolic Christian churches Anabaptist? How are they classified?

In a broad sense they are considered Anabaptist.

But just like many old order and conservative Mennonites and Amish don't identify as Anabaptist (they save that term for the early Anabaptists), so many Apostolics do not consider themselves Anabaptist.

Thank you, Ernie. That’s a good, straightforward explanation. I appreciate it.
Do you know whether they believe in the free Will of the believer?

Here's how they would explain it:
Part 1
Part 2