Classifying Anabaptists

[Ernie]

This is a thread for those who would like to help work on classifying, defining, and labeling various Anabaptist constituencies.
Those who don't see value in this sort of thing are welcome to move on to the next thread.

[Ernie]

Here are some constituencies of Anabaptists that I am acquainted with…

Old Orders
*Ultra Traditional Old Orders
*Moderate Old Orders
*Acculturating Old Orders

New Orders
*Traditional New Orders
*Moderate New Orders (this is a place holder, I figure there are some of these but I don’t know of a particular constituency)
*Acculturating New Orders (this is a place holder, I figure there are some of these but I don’t know of a particular constituency)

Conservatives
*Ultra-Conservatives (also referred to as The New Old Orders or Neo-Old Orders)
*Intermediate-Conservatives
*Moderate Conservatives
*Acculturating Conservatives (also referred to as Fundamental Conservatives or Progressive Conservatives)

Evangelicals
*Theologically Conservative Evangelicals
*Neo-Evangelicals

Mainliners
*Conservatives
*Moderates
*Progressives

[JohnH]

I'm interested in hearing more about the various kinds of Old Orders. Where do the various Pure Church Movement groups fit in?

[Ernie]

I'm interested in hearing more about the various kinds of Old Orders.

Recently I read an article about how the e-bike has become the main bike for moderate Old Orders in Holmes County. However, traditional New Orders (maybe 10-15 % of the Amish population in Holmes County and the ones who first allowed tractors), are not allowing e-bikes. Such are the interesting twists in the Plain world.

[Ernie]

Where do the various Pure Church Movement groups fit in?

Which groups are you thinking of?

[Ken]

Perhaps add a new group titled "Neo-Anabaptists"

To encompass newly formed groups that claim Anabaptist theology but do not have roots in one of the historic Anabaptist traditions. I'm thinking of groups like Homestead Heritage in Waco or Followers of the Way in Boston.

[JohnH]

I'm interested in hearing more about the various kinds of Old Orders.

Recently I read an article about how the e-bike has become the main bike for moderate Old Orders in Holmes County. However, traditional New Orders (maybe 10-15 % of the Amish population in Holmes County and the ones who first allowed tractors), are not allowing e-bikes. Such are the interesting twists in the Plain world.

Based on personal conversations with them, that is correct. A handful of Old Order districts don't allow e-bikes, and they caucus with the New Order groups that also don't allow e-bikes. However, they only caucus with the New Order groups that don't allow things like smartphones.

There are several New Order groups with the usual types among them - some transitional groups, some that are more stable, some that are very traditional. The traditional group is the only one I am personally familiar with, and they eschew smartphones and e-bikes and discourage using tractors as a form of personal transportation to drive to town. They also have, generally speaking, abandoned theological views that OO Amish aren't "saved".

Where do the various Pure Church Movement groups fit in?

Which groups are you thinking of?

Scottsvile-KY type churches (like Delano, Englewood, etc.); Believers in Christ groups like Lobelville, TN-type church, Pearisburg, VA, etc; and then the other groups like the Spencer, TN-type church (which now has multiple districts plus is starting a new settlement). Just to list a few. Orthodox Mennonites would also be in the PCM list but they are realistically a One True Church group, so more correctly categorized with Stauffers and Reformed Mennonites.

The PCM groups need more study as they have their own gradations amongst themselves. For example, as I understand it, the Lobelville group is rapidly transitioning. The Caneyville, TN community is also doing so (driving vans around, listening to Charity "the godly home" series CDs on the van's CD player, etc.)

Perhaps add a new group titled "Neo-Anabaptists"

To encompass newly formed groups that claim Anabaptist theology but do not have roots in one of the historic Anabaptist traditions. I'm thinking of groups like Homestead Heritage in Waco or Followers of the Way in Boston.

Homestead Heritage is not an Anabaptist group and has never claimed to be, although I understand they may be moving in that direction. Followers of the Way doesn't claim to be Anabaptist either.

Neo-Anabaptism is a term already used by others to specifically refer to peope like Greg Boyd; it does not imply any kind of plain lifestyle.

[Ken]

Perhaps add a new group titled "Neo-Anabaptists"

To encompass newly formed groups that claim Anabaptist theology but do not have roots in one of the historic Anabaptist traditions. I'm thinking of groups like Homestead Heritage in Waco or Followers of the Way in Boston.

Homestead Heritage is not an Anabaptist group and has never claimed to be, although I understand they may be moving in that direction. Followers of the Way doesn't claim to be Anabaptist either.

Neo-Anabaptism is a term already used by others to specifically refer to peope like Greg Boyd; it does not imply any kind of plain lifestyle.

Homestead Heritage says: https://heritagepress.com/our-beliefs/

Though we’re not officially affiliated with any larger denomination, our agrarian Christian community shares many core beliefs with various Christian traditions, including Baptists, Methodists, Pentecostals and Mennonites. Our beliefs, lifestyle and values are perhaps most heavily influenced by the Anabaptist tradition.

Followers of the Way say: https://www.followers-of-the-way.org/about

We are a group that emphasizes the Word of God and obedience to it. For the historically minded, you will find that our teachings are close to the ante-Nicene church, as well as the persecuted, suffering church throughout the ages (the Waldensians, the Lollards, and the early Anabaptists). But we point to Scripture rather than a church document for the source of our understanding.

Sattler College says:https://sattler.edu/about-us/

Sattler College provides an education that is grounded in the historic Christian faith. This encompasses the traditional beliefs of the church with respect to doctrine and practice. While the College has no specific denominational affiliation, the beliefs upon which it is established correspond most closely with the persecuted, suffering churches of history, such as the ante-Nicene church, the Waldensians, the Wycliffites, and the Anabaptists.

The term Neo-Anabaptist at least as it is defined in Wikipedia would seem to apply to such groups: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Anabaptism

Neo-Anabaptism is a Christian theological movement in the late twentieth and early twenty-first century inspired by classical Anabaptism. According to Stuart Murray, neo-Anabaptists "identify with the Anabaptist tradition and are happy to be known as Anabaptists, but have no historic or cultural links with any Anabaptist-related denomination".

And if not, then some new grouping or category seems appropriate for all of these new groups that are borrowing heavily from the Anabaptist tradition but don't have traditional Anabaptist roots.

[ohio jones]

The term Neo-Anabaptist at least as it is defined in Wikipedia would seem to apply to such groups: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Anabaptism

Neo-Anabaptism is a Christian theological movement in the late twentieth and early twenty-first century inspired by classical Anabaptism. According to Stuart Murray, neo-Anabaptists "identify with the Anabaptist tradition and are happy to be known as Anabaptists, but have no historic or cultural links with any Anabaptist-related denomination".

Not everyone in FOTW is happy to be known as an Anabaptist.

[JohnH]

Homestead Heritage says: https://heritagepress.com/our-beliefs/

Though we’re not officially affiliated with any larger denomination, our agrarian Christian community shares many core beliefs with various Christian traditions, including Baptists, Methodists, Pentecostals and Mennonites. Our beliefs, lifestyle and values are perhaps most heavily influenced by the Anabaptist tradition.

Generally speaking, Baptists, Methodists, and Pentecostals are not Anabaptists. As I said, they may be moving in that direction since they say they are influenced by Anabaptist tradition, but they don't claim to be Anabaptists.

They also really have nothing at all in common with actual neo-Anabaptists like Greg Boyd.

Followers of the Way say: https://www.followers-of-the-way.org/about

We are a group that emphasizes the Word of God and obedience to it. For the historically minded, you will find that our teachings are close to the ante-Nicene church, as well as the persecuted, suffering church throughout the ages (the Waldensians, the Lollards, and the early Anabaptists). But we point to Scripture rather than a church document for the source of our understanding.

I have had someone in a position of leadership in FotW tell me he is not an Anabaptist and never will be.

Sattler College says:https://sattler.edu/about-us/

Sattler College provides an education that is grounded in the historic Christian faith. This encompasses the traditional beliefs of the church with respect to doctrine and practice. While the College has no specific denominational affiliation, the beliefs upon which it is established correspond most closely with the persecuted, suffering churches of history, such as the ante-Nicene church, the Waldensians, the Wycliffites, and the Anabaptists.

That also isn't claiming to be Anabaptist.

The term Neo-Anabaptist at least as it is defined in Wikipedia would seem to apply to such groups: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Anabaptism

Neo-Anabaptism is a Christian theological movement in the late twentieth and early twenty-first century inspired by classical Anabaptism. According to Stuart Murray, neo-Anabaptists "identify with the Anabaptist tradition and are happy to be known as Anabaptists, but have no historic or cultural links with any Anabaptist-related denomination".

Well, that wouldn't apply to FotW since a large fraction of their membership are ethnic Anabaptists.