Mainline/Mainstream Anabaptists

[ken_sylvania]

This is the conclusion that most Mainliners/Mainstreamers have been coming to the last while.

Is that not the traditional Mennonite position? That a person who has been divorced is welcomed if they repent and if they "sin no more" which is understood to mean that they do not remarry while the former spouse still lives? "Gay" can have a range of meanings but if it simply has to do with an attraction that one feels, wouldn't such a person be accepted if they repent and live a pure life?

Why would a person who’s been divorced have to repent of anything, assuming they weren’t the person instigating it?

If they are sinless then I suppose they wouldn't need to repent. I wasn't meaning to imply that a person needs to repent because their unbelieving spouse has left them.

[Ernie]

I agree.
He would probably have similar words to say to the person as he said to the woman caught in adultery.
"Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more."

This is the conclusion that most Mainliners/Mainstreamers have been coming to the last while.

Is that not the traditional Mennonite position? That a person who has been divorced is welcomed if they repent and if they "sin no more" which is understood to mean that they do not remarry while the former spouse still lives? "Gay" can have a range of meanings but if it simply has to do with an attraction that one feels, wouldn't such a person be accepted if they repent and live a pure life?

Yes, you are correct. As you describe it, most traditional Anabaptists would welcome such into our churches. If this is what Jim was inferring, than nearly all Anabaptists would be in agreement with his statement.

[Ernie]

LMC has two groups of congregations: heritage Mennonite congregations and African-American and Hispanic congregations. The number of heritage Mennonites is going to shrink. The warning signs are here: lots of small churches that can't find pastors, giving to LMC is down in the last years despite adding a lot of new congregations. I expect a lot of small LMC churches are going to close in the next 20 years.

Are you saying that only heritage Mennonite congregations are under threat, or are African/Hispanic American congregations under threat also?

[Ernie]

This is a thread to discuss Mainline/Mainstream Anabaptists such as Mennonite Church USA, Mennonite Church Canada, Evana Network, LMC (formerly Lancaster conference), Church of the Brethren, Brethren in Christ.

Ernie, do you have a working definition for the kinds of churches you are talking about? Would it be fair to describe the groups you’re referring to as “Anabaptist churches that do not practice plain dress”? Or is there a better way to characterize the distinction?

I loaned out my book by Stephen Scott so I cannot verify this, but I think he would have classified Mainline/Mainstream Anabaptists as those who permit women pastors, are ok with more variety of scriptural interpretations, and tend to have more emphasis on social issues.

In contrast are Theological Conservatives who only allow male pastors, take a position on divorce and remarriage, are more concerned about correct doctrine, adhering to statements of faith, and more emphasis on preaching, revivalism, and evangelism. They are more likely to emphasize things like biblical inerrancy, substitutionary atonement, and a focus on individual salvation. Theological Conservatives are more likely to believe that wives should submit to their husbands, etc.

Neither group practices Plain dress.

[cooper]

LMC has two groups of congregations: heritage Mennonite congregations and African-American and Hispanic congregations. The number of heritage Mennonites is going to shrink. The warning signs are here: lots of small churches that can't find pastors, giving to LMC is down in the last years despite adding a lot of new congregations. I expect a lot of small LMC churches are going to close in the next 20 years.

Are you saying that only heritage Mennonite congregations are under threat, or are African/Hispanic American congregations under threat also?

I am saying the original heritage Mennonite congregations of LMC are shrinking. It looks like African/Hispanic churches are growing.

[cooper]

I loaned out my book by Stephen Scott so I cannot verify this, but I think he would have classified Mainline/Mainstream Anabaptists as those who permit women pastors, are ok with more variety of scriptural interpretations, and tend to have more emphasis on social issues.

In contrast are Theological Conservatives who only allow male pastors, take a position on divorce and remarriage, are more concerned about correct doctrine, adhering to statements of faith, and more emphasis on preaching, revivalism, and evangelism. They are more likely to emphasize things like biblical inerrancy, substitutionary atonement, and a focus on individual salvation. Theological Conservatives are more likely to believe that wives should submit to their husbands, etc.

Neither group practices Plain dress.

I cannot think of any groups that fit the definition of Theological Conservative. BMA is the closest, but still practices the headcovering so not sure if you consider them practicing Plain dress. CMC/Rosedale would have fit the definition when Stephen Scott wrote his book. There's much less space between LMC and Rosedale than there was. Rosedale does not allow male pastors, but some Rosedale churches allow women to preach "under the authority of elders." MCUSA has become more progressive since Scott's book. I think Scott's categories need updating.

[ohio jones]

There's much less space between LMC and Rosedale than there was.

There never was a lot of space, and it doesn't appear from my perspective that it has changed appreciably.

Rosedale does not allow male pastors

I don't think that's entirely accurate.

[Ernie]

LMC has two groups of congregations: heritage Mennonite congregations and African-American and Hispanic congregations. The number of heritage Mennonites is going to shrink. The warning signs are here: lots of small churches that can't find pastors, giving to LMC is down in the last years despite adding a lot of new congregations. I expect a lot of small LMC churches are going to close in the next 20 years.

Are you saying that only heritage Mennonite congregations are under threat, or are African/Hispanic American congregations under threat also?

I am saying the original heritage Mennonite congregations of LMC are shrinking. It looks like African/Hispanic churches are growing.

Are any African/Hispanic congregations outside of the USA?

[JohnH]

LMC has two groups of congregations: heritage Mennonite congregations and African-American and Hispanic congregations. The number of heritage Mennonites is going to shrink. The warning signs are here: lots of small churches that can't find pastors, giving to LMC is down in the last years despite adding a lot of new congregations. I expect a lot of small LMC churches are going to close in the next 20 years.

Are you saying that only heritage Mennonite congregations are under threat, or are African/Hispanic American congregations under threat also?

I am saying the original heritage Mennonite congregations of LMC are shrinking. It looks like African/Hispanic churches are growing.

However, the LMC seems to have become the “default” conference for other congregations looking for a place to go.

I was under the impression LMC congregations feel comfortable with their youth going to Rosedale.

[Ernie]

I loaned out my book by Stephen Scott so I cannot verify this, but I think he would have classified Mainline/Mainstream Anabaptists as those who permit women pastors, are ok with more variety of scriptural interpretations, and tend to have more emphasis on social issues.

In contrast are Theological Conservatives who only allow male pastors, take a position on divorce and remarriage, are more concerned about correct doctrine, adhering to statements of faith, and more emphasis on preaching, revivalism, and evangelism. They are more likely to emphasize things like biblical inerrancy, substitutionary atonement, and a focus on individual salvation. Theological Conservatives are more likely to believe that wives should submit to their husbands, etc.

Neither group practices Plain dress.

I cannot think of any groups that fit the definition of Theological Conservative. BMA is the closest, but still practices the headcovering so not sure if you consider them practicing Plain dress. CMC/Rosedale would have fit the definition when Stephen Scott wrote his book. There's much less space between LMC and Rosedale than there was. Rosedale does not allow male pastors, but some Rosedale churches allow women to preach "under the authority of elders." MCUSA has become more progressive since Scott's book. I think Scott's categories need updating.

In what way does Rosedale not fit Theological Conservative?