They also do a good job of creating people who are used to faithfully supporting established structures, which makes them an attractive mission field for other denominations. They make good converts in many cases.cmbl wrote: ↑Thu May 29, 2025 12:07 pmThis is not original with me, it may be from The Earth is the Lord's: The Mennonites do a good job of creating spiritually sensitive people, who are then attracted to these movements.Wesleyb wrote: ↑Thu May 29, 2025 11:13 amI don't know if this dovetails perfectly with your list or not, but my observation is that we tend to view our churches as "dead" and are attracted to movements with life, excitement, spiritual fervor, etc. We are not attracted to more ritualism, or rigid structure because we have enough of that already.Ernie wrote: ↑Wed May 28, 2025 8:03 am Why did Pietism, Revivalism, Restorationism, Holiness, Fundamentalism, Evangelicalism, Non-Denominationalism make inroads into Plain Anabaptist communities, but Orthodoxy, Catholicism, Sacramentalism, and Calvinism have not?
And then we have things like Puritanism, Moravianism, Modernism, Charismatic thinking, Emerging Church, and Prosperity Gospel teaching that perhaps influenced some smaller break away groups but didn't really influence Plain Anabaptists as a whole.
Why Some Movements Made Inroads into Plain Anabaptist Communities...
Re: Why Some Movements Made Inroads into Plain Anabaptist Communities...
1 x
-
JohnL
- Posts: 2790
- Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2024 1:40 pm
- Location: The Bionic Hillbilly
- Affiliation: Free Will Baptist
Re: Why Some Movements Made Inroads into Plain Anabaptist Communities...
Is it an emotional appeal from these other groups then? I've seen a lot of that in my lifetime. They try to do happy clappy good time entertainment evangelism to attract converts.Wesleyb wrote: ↑Thu May 29, 2025 11:13 amI don't know if this dovetails perfectly with your list or not, but my observation is that we tend to view our churches as "dead" and are attracted to movements with life, excitement, spiritual fervor, etc. We are not attracted to more ritualism, or rigid structure because we have enough of that already.Ernie wrote: ↑Wed May 28, 2025 8:03 am Why did Pietism, Revivalism, Restorationism, Holiness, Fundamentalism, Evangelicalism, Non-Denominationalism make inroads into Plain Anabaptist communities, but Orthodoxy, Catholicism, Sacramentalism, and Calvinism have not?
And then we have things like Puritanism, Moravianism, Modernism, Charismatic thinking, Emerging Church, and Prosperity Gospel teaching that perhaps influenced some smaller break away groups but didn't really influence Plain Anabaptists as a whole.
I personally don't see the point of their church if it's not emphasizing Jesus and the Bible. It must appeal to some though.
0 x
Free Will Baptist <-> Anabaptist
”Try hard not to offend. Try harder not to be offended.” Robert Martz
”Try hard not to offend. Try harder not to be offended.” Robert Martz
Re: Why Some Movements Made Inroads into Plain Anabaptist Communities...
Yes, a number have figured this out, including the Mormons and JWs.mike wrote: ↑Thu May 29, 2025 12:13 pmThey also do a good job of creating people who are used to faithfully supporting established structures, which makes them an attractive mission field for other denominations. They make good converts in many cases.cmbl wrote: ↑Thu May 29, 2025 12:07 pmThis is not original with me, it may be from The Earth is the Lord's: The Mennonites do a good job of creating spiritually sensitive people, who are then attracted to these movements.Wesleyb wrote: ↑Thu May 29, 2025 11:13 am
I don't know if this dovetails perfectly with your list or not, but my observation is that we tend to view our churches as "dead" and are attracted to movements with life, excitement, spiritual fervor, etc. We are not attracted to more ritualism, or rigid structure because we have enough of that already.
0 x
Re: Why Some Movements Made Inroads into Plain Anabaptist Communities...
To understand it you must start from a salvation that is individual and truly meaningful only after this life. Then the gospels and their message of following is minimized to a brief prelude to the conversion event and the real scripture becomes the portions of the Epistles where theology is discussed (how you should think or feel) but not so much the portions on how you should live (generally considered culture). Once the gospel is defined as a thinking process or an emotional state, Jesus and the Bible may not be the most effective at reproducing it and entertainments rise in status.
This is a harsh critique and somewhat overstated for clarity but I think it is a noticable pattern.
3 x
Re: Why Some Movements Made Inroads into Plain Anabaptist Communities...
I generally tune out anyone who acts like “happy clappy” worship is a bad thing by. Is there something wrong with people who jubilantly worship the Lord?
0 x
-
Ken
- Posts: 21863
- Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:02 am
- Location: Washington State
- Affiliation: former MCUSA
Re: Why Some Movements Made Inroads into Plain Anabaptist Communities...
It occurs to me that there is probably also something of an urban/rural split going on here as well.
Anabaptists (and especially plain Anabaptists) tend to be rural, at least historically. And so will come into contact with and have more affinity for other religious movements that tend to be rural.
Orthodoxy and Catholicism tend to be more urban in the US because the waves of immigration that brought them tended to settle in big cities (Irish, Polish, Italian, etc.) and so tend to be more urban religions in the US. That is why, for example, that most Catholic universities are in big cities while Anabaptist colleges tend to be located in small towns. And, of course, historically Anabaptism defines itself in opposition to Catholicism and Catholic practice (infant baptism) so there's that as well.
Anabaptists (and especially plain Anabaptists) tend to be rural, at least historically. And so will come into contact with and have more affinity for other religious movements that tend to be rural.
Orthodoxy and Catholicism tend to be more urban in the US because the waves of immigration that brought them tended to settle in big cities (Irish, Polish, Italian, etc.) and so tend to be more urban religions in the US. That is why, for example, that most Catholic universities are in big cities while Anabaptist colleges tend to be located in small towns. And, of course, historically Anabaptism defines itself in opposition to Catholicism and Catholic practice (infant baptism) so there's that as well.
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
-
JohnL
- Posts: 2790
- Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2024 1:40 pm
- Location: The Bionic Hillbilly
- Affiliation: Free Will Baptist
Re: Why Some Movements Made Inroads into Plain Anabaptist Communities...
Yep I can see it. I'd add to your pattern that entertainments are then used to pull in donations too. That whole Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker effect. $$$$$$$$barnhart wrote: ↑Fri May 30, 2025 7:18 amTo understand it you must start from a salvation that is individual and truly meaningful only after this life. Then the gospels and their message of following is minimized to a brief prelude to the conversion event and the real scripture becomes the portions of the Epistles where theology is discussed (how you should think or feel) but not so much the portions on how you should live (generally considered culture). Once the gospel is defined as a thinking process or an emotional state, Jesus and the Bible may not be the most effective at reproducing it and entertainments rise in status.
This is a harsh critique and somewhat overstated for clarity but I think it is a noticable pattern.
An old buddy of mine retired to Spartanburg, SC. They started going to this church called Free Chapel. I went online and under ministries they have "production" and it sounds like the movie industry. https://freechapel.org/spartanburg/production. I couldn't find a statement of faith anywhere on their site. My impression is that it's a bunch individual groups under an umbrella called Free Chapel kind of like a college with different academic majors.
0 x
Free Will Baptist <-> Anabaptist
”Try hard not to offend. Try harder not to be offended.” Robert Martz
”Try hard not to offend. Try harder not to be offended.” Robert Martz
Re: Why Some Movements Made Inroads into Plain Anabaptist Communities...
It didn't take too much to find it, JohnL:
https://freechapel.org/about
Our Core Values:
Honor Yesterday. Inspire Tomorrow:
God’s vision is generational. The next generation is coming behind us with a great call on their lives. Their gifts will make room for them somewhere; it’s our assignment to provide that place for them. If we don’t do it, someone else will.
Live Life Together:
You’re only as good as the people you have around you.
Never Hold Back:
Everything big starts with something small. We go above and beyond in everything we do.
Believe The Best In Others:
Love never fails. Forgiveness always wins.
https://freechapel.org/about
Our Core Values:
Honor Yesterday. Inspire Tomorrow:
God’s vision is generational. The next generation is coming behind us with a great call on their lives. Their gifts will make room for them somewhere; it’s our assignment to provide that place for them. If we don’t do it, someone else will.
Live Life Together:
You’re only as good as the people you have around you.
Never Hold Back:
Everything big starts with something small. We go above and beyond in everything we do.
Believe The Best In Others:
Love never fails. Forgiveness always wins.
0 x