Persecution of Anabaptists by Protestants and Catholics

[MattY]

A similar false narrative is the burning of Anabaptists at the stake by Catholics. Absolutely happened, but far more Anabaptists were killed by Protestant leaders than Catholic.

What's your source for this assertion?

I see it as the opposite. Persecution absolutely happened under Protestants (including the first Anabaptist martyrdom), but as far as I can tell, the most severe persecution was under Catholics, for whom the use of the sword to exterminate "heretics" was a tenet of church teaching taught by papal bulls and church councils.

This book by an Anabaptist convert says that Catholics were responsible for 84% of executions of Anabaptists:
http://www.wittenberg2017.us/uploads/3/ ... nglish.pdf


Schaff says (https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/hcc8/hcc8.iv.iii.xvii.html),

In Germany and in Austria the Anabaptists fared still worse. The Diet of Speier, in April, 1529, decreed that "every Anabaptist and rebaptized person of either sex be put to death by sword, or fire, or otherwise." The decree was severely carried out, except in Strassburg and the domain of Philip of Hesse, where the heretics were treated more leniently. The most blood was shed in Roman Catholic countries. In Görz the house in which the Anabaptists were assembled for worship was set on fire. "In Tyrol and Görz," says Cornelius,145 "the number of executions in the year 1531 reached already one thousand; in Ensisheim, six hundred. At Linz seventy-three were killed in six weeks. Duke William of Bavaria, surpassing all others, issued the fearful decree to behead those who recanted, to burn those who refused to recant.... Throughout the greater part of Upper Germany the persecution raged like a wild chase.... The blood of these poor people flowed like water so that they cried to the Lord for help.... But hundreds of them of all ages and both sexes suffered the pangs of torture without a murmur, despised to buy their lives by recantation, and went to the place of execution joyfully and singing psalms."

And when I look up the worst of the persecutions (detailed in the link below for example), they were mostly done by Catholics. Again, there certainly was persecution from Protestants; but where there was a measure of toleration, such as under Philip of Hesse, or in Strasbourg where Martin Bucer was the Protestant leader, or in the Palatinate after the 1530s when the Protestant electors took over the government, or in the Netherlands under the Protestant William of Orange, it was mostly under Protestant leaders.

https://www.gracegems.org/C/persecution ... ptists.htm
(This is from the book "Mennonites in Europe" by John Horsch)

[Ken]

I think that is logically or chronologically accurate as well for the Germanic parts of the Holy Roman Empire, because Protestants (Lutherans) didn't really gain political power in the northern German principalities until the Peace of Augsburg, which was signed in 1555.

So any religious persecution that happened before that would have occurred under de facto Catholic rule.

[Nomad]

A similar false narrative is the burning of Anabaptists at the stake by Catholics. Absolutely happened, but far more Anabaptists were killed by Protestant leaders than Catholic.

What's your source for this assertion?

I see it as the opposite. Persecution absolutely happened under Protestants (including the first Anabaptist martyrdom), but as far as I can tell, the most severe persecution was under Catholics, for whom the use of the sword to exterminate "heretics" was a tenet of church teaching taught by papal bulls and church councils.

This book by an Anabaptist convert says that Catholics were responsible for 84% of executions of Anabaptists:
http://www.wittenberg2017.us/uploads/3/ ... nglish.pdf


Schaff says (https://ccel.org/ccel/schaff/hcc8/hcc8.iv.iii.xvii.html),

In Germany and in Austria the Anabaptists fared still worse. The Diet of Speier, in April, 1529, decreed that "every Anabaptist and rebaptized person of either sex be put to death by sword, or fire, or otherwise." The decree was severely carried out, except in Strassburg and the domain of Philip of Hesse, where the heretics were treated more leniently. The most blood was shed in Roman Catholic countries. In Görz the house in which the Anabaptists were assembled for worship was set on fire. "In Tyrol and Görz," says Cornelius,145 "the number of executions in the year 1531 reached already one thousand; in Ensisheim, six hundred. At Linz seventy-three were killed in six weeks. Duke William of Bavaria, surpassing all others, issued the fearful decree to behead those who recanted, to burn those who refused to recant.... Throughout the greater part of Upper Germany the persecution raged like a wild chase.... The blood of these poor people flowed like water so that they cried to the Lord for help.... But hundreds of them of all ages and both sexes suffered the pangs of torture without a murmur, despised to buy their lives by recantation, and went to the place of execution joyfully and singing psalms."

And when I look up the worst of the persecutions (detailed in the link below for example), they were mostly done by Catholics. Again, there certainly was persecution from Protestants; but where there was a measure of toleration, such as under Philip of Hesse, or in Strasbourg where Martin Bucer was the Protestant leader, or in the Palatinate after the 1530s when the Protestant electors took over the government, or in the Netherlands under the Protestant William of Orange, it was mostly under Protestant leaders.

https://www.gracegems.org/C/persecution ... ptists.htm
(This is from the book "Mennonites in Europe" by John Horsch)

I've heard a similar number as what you stated. 85% Catholic while 15% Protestant. Supposedly the Catholics would burn the heretics while Protestants would typically drown them as a retribution for their view on rebaptism.

[barnhart]

I learned a few things in thread.

[JayP]

Google it. FWIIW It is not something to argue about. I merely tried to reference another example on the topic things are not always what you think they are.

That said, I am comfortable with mak8ng the statement. I have heard many folks in Anabaptist settings note it.
We would also have to then argue if killing the Munsterites count.

Don’t expect me to argue it. I regret openning a rabbit trail to the main topic.

[Ernie]

I have heard many folks in Anabaptist settings note it.

Just because many folks in Anabaptist settings said it doesn't make it true. But maybe that isn't what we are looking for here.

[JayP]

I am with you Ernie. Something someone says is not automatically true. Kind of line John’s expertise on all things Catholic.
IMHO Those here excited at their 85/15 ratio simply demonstrates there is little point in some discussions.

[JohnH]

I am with you Ernie. Something someone says is not automatically true. Kind of line John’s expertise on all things Catholic.
IMHO Those here excited at their 85/15 ratio simply demonstrates there is little point in some discussions.

Is there an unbiased expert on all things Catholic you'd like to propose share such things with this august forum?

[ohio jones]

... things are not always what you think they are.

Very true.

[JohnL]

Are there any civil records of the Anabaptist deaths and who executed them? It seems to me that would be more impartial and less biased than anything written by converts who sometimes have very large axes to grind.
OTOH writings from nonconverts with fierce loyalties to their church are also biased.
I don’t doubt at all that there was persecution. Any time big changes in the status quo happens there’s entrenchments. Look at the early Christian church and how they were treated. Jesus was persecuted by the Jewish leadership who felt their status threatened. They turned Jesus over to the Romans and forced the Romans to intervene when they really didn’t want to be involved.