What is the nature of Conservatism

[JohnH]

The point is that church attendance and membership for a whole lot of people has a lot more to do with things like family and community ties and history and less about specific points of doctrine.

This is not typically the case in Anabaptism at all. In many instances, families are divided right down the middle.

[Ernie]

Ok. Thanks for the feedback.

I will reword the categories this way.

1. Mainstream/Mainline Anabaptists. Those who vote Democrat, are ok with women pastors, and are also ok with Christians practicing a LGBTQ lifestyle.
2. Mainstream/Mainline Anabaptists. Those who vote Democrat, are ok with women pastors, but are not ok with Christians practicing a LGBTQ lifestyle.
4. Mainstream/Mainline Anabaptists. Those who vote Republican, are ok with women pastors, and are also ok with Christians practicing a LGBTQ lifestyle.
4. Mainstream/Mainline Anabaptists. Those who vote Republican, are ok with women pastors, but not ok with Christians practicing a LGBTQ lifestyle.

For those familiar with Mainstream/Mainline Anabaptists, what are the approximate percentages for each of the above categories?

Judging from my own very large extended family which is mostly MCUSA and CMC I would guestimate that 60% are Republican leaning, 15% are Democratic leaning, and 25% are apolitical/independent and not particularly engaged in politics. And if they do vote it is more on personality than party. The divisions are more around urban/rural lines rather than politics. My urban cousins tend to be more white collar and liberal. My rural cousins tend to be more blue collar and conservative.

As for women pastors and LGBT people? I think those are only big issues for a minority and not that big of a deal for the rest. For example, I have lots of cousins who attend CMC churches and I suspect the majority of them (especially the younger ones) would be perfectly fine with women pastors even though their conference doesn't allow it. It just isn't a big enough deal to change congregations from the one your family has been attending for a century. And they also wouldn't have much issue with gay members if they weren't too flamboyant or pushy about it. Likewise, I probably have older uncles and cousins who attend MCUSA churches who aren't thrilled by women pastors or LGBT members but it isn't a big enough issue to part ways over.

At the same time, I do have extended relatives who have parted ways with MCUSA over LGBT issues but not by joining more conservative Anabaptist groups. Rather, they left the Anabaptist fold and joined more conservative Evangelical groups that were more attuned to their politics. Mostly conservative non-denominational "community" churches of a vaguely Baptist flavor.

The point is that church attendance and membership for a whole lot of people has a lot more to do with things like family and community ties and history and less about specific points of doctrine.

CMC (now Rosedale Network) is not considered mainstream/mainline. It is considered Theologically Conservative. I'm wanting to know the percentages among churches that are ok with women pastors.

[Ken]

Ok. Thanks for the feedback.

I will reword the categories this way.

1. Mainstream/Mainline Anabaptists. Those who vote Democrat, are ok with women pastors, and are also ok with Christians practicing a LGBTQ lifestyle.
2. Mainstream/Mainline Anabaptists. Those who vote Democrat, are ok with women pastors, but are not ok with Christians practicing a LGBTQ lifestyle.
4. Mainstream/Mainline Anabaptists. Those who vote Republican, are ok with women pastors, and are also ok with Christians practicing a LGBTQ lifestyle.
4. Mainstream/Mainline Anabaptists. Those who vote Republican, are ok with women pastors, but not ok with Christians practicing a LGBTQ lifestyle.

For those familiar with Mainstream/Mainline Anabaptists, what are the approximate percentages for each of the above categories?

Judging from my own very large extended family which is mostly MCUSA and CMC I would guestimate that 60% are Republican leaning, 15% are Democratic leaning, and 25% are apolitical/independent and not particularly engaged in politics. And if they do vote it is more on personality than party. The divisions are more around urban/rural lines rather than politics. My urban cousins tend to be more white collar and liberal. My rural cousins tend to be more blue collar and conservative.

As for women pastors and LGBT people? I think those are only big issues for a minority and not that big of a deal for the rest. For example, I have lots of cousins who attend CMC churches and I suspect the majority of them (especially the younger ones) would be perfectly fine with women pastors even though their conference doesn't allow it. It just isn't a big enough deal to change congregations from the one your family has been attending for a century. And they also wouldn't have much issue with gay members if they weren't too flamboyant or pushy about it. Likewise, I probably have older uncles and cousins who attend MCUSA churches who aren't thrilled by women pastors or LGBT members but it isn't a big enough issue to part ways over.

At the same time, I do have extended relatives who have parted ways with MCUSA over LGBT issues but not by joining more conservative Anabaptist groups. Rather, they left the Anabaptist fold and joined more conservative Evangelical groups that were more attuned to their politics. Mostly conservative non-denominational "community" churches of a vaguely Baptist flavor.

The point is that church attendance and membership for a whole lot of people has a lot more to do with things like family and community ties and history and less about specific points of doctrine.

CMC (now Rosedale Network) is not considered mainstream/mainline. It is considered Theologically Conservative. I'm wanting to know the percentages among churches that are ok with women pastors.

This is the problem with your categories. Because denominations don’t vote. People vote. And if we are talking about people then there are plenty of them who would consider themselves mainstream/mainline who attend CMC churches and who are OK with women pastors and gay members.

[JohnH]

This is the problem with your categories. Because denominations don’t vote. People vote.

Specific demographic groups often vote overwhelmingly for one party or another (or don't vote at all, or vote independent, and so forth).

And if we are talking about people then there are plenty of them who would consider themselves mainstream/mainline who attend CMC churches and who are OK with women pastors and gay members.

This is not the case in CMC churches I am familiar with. There was one around here who had some people who would lean that way, but they are now affiliated with MC USA/Ohio Conference. If anything, CMC has forged an identity that is basically "we don't tolerate homosexuality".

There will, of course, always be outliers. Some dogs have 3 legs, but I can confidently say that dogs have 4 legs.

[Szdfan]

Judging from my own very large extended family which is mostly MCUSA and CMC I would guestimate that 60% are Republican leaning, 15% are Democratic leaning, and 25% are apolitical/independent and not particularly engaged in politics. And if they do vote it is more on personality than party. The divisions are more around urban/rural lines rather than politics. My urban cousins tend to be more white collar and liberal. My rural cousins tend to be more blue collar and conservative.

As for women pastors and LGBT people? I think those are only big issues for a minority and not that big of a deal for the rest. For example, I have lots of cousins who attend CMC churches and I suspect the majority of them (especially the younger ones) would be perfectly fine with women pastors even though their conference doesn't allow it. It just isn't a big enough deal to change congregations from the one your family has been attending for a century. And they also wouldn't have much issue with gay members if they weren't too flamboyant or pushy about it. Likewise, I probably have older uncles and cousins who attend MCUSA churches who aren't thrilled by women pastors or LGBT members but it isn't a big enough issue to part ways over.

At the same time, I do have extended relatives who have parted ways with MCUSA over LGBT issues but not by joining more conservative Anabaptist groups. Rather, they left the Anabaptist fold and joined more conservative Evangelical groups that were more attuned to their politics. Mostly conservative non-denominational "community" churches of a vaguely Baptist flavor.

The point is that church attendance and membership for a whole lot of people has a lot more to do with things like family and community ties and history and less about specific points of doctrine.

CMC (now Rosedale Network) is not considered mainstream/mainline. It is considered Theologically Conservative. I'm wanting to know the percentages among churches that are ok with women pastors.

This is the problem with your categories. Because denominations don’t vote. People vote. And if we are talking about people then there are plenty of them who would consider themselves mainstream/mainline who attend CMC churches and who are OK with women pastors and gay members.

The congregation I used to pastor was in a conference with multiple women pastors, had an interim woman pastor, but a majoririty did not want a permanent woman pastor.

I think the best way Ernie to find out the answers to your questions would be to approach the conferences directly and ask them if they have surveyed their members on these questions. It's not something that we'd necessarily know here on MN.

[Ernie]

This is the problem with your categories. Because denominations don’t vote. People vote. And if we are talking about people then there are plenty of them who would consider themselves mainstream/mainline who attend CMC churches and who are OK with women pastors and gay members.

I'm using sociological categorizations that Stephen Scott used.
I understand that denominations don't vote. I'm trying to get info about individuals.

Of Anabaptists in the US and Canada who are fine with women pastors...

1. What rough guestimate do you have for those who typically vote Democrat, and are ok with Christians practicing a LGBTQ lifestyle?
2. What rough guestimate do you have for those who typically vote Democrat, and are not ok with Christians practicing a LGBTQ lifestyle?
3. What rough guestimate do you have for those who typically vote Republican, and are ok with Christians practicing a LGBTQ lifestyle?
4. What rough guestimate do you have for those who typically vote Republican, and are not ok with Christians practicing a LGBTQ lifestyle?
5. What rough guestimate do you have for those who identify as Independent, who sometimes vote Democrat and sometimes vote Republican?
6. What rough guestimate do you have for those who don't vote at all?

[Szdfan]

This is the problem with your categories. Because denominations don’t vote. People vote. And if we are talking about people then there are plenty of them who would consider themselves mainstream/mainline who attend CMC churches and who are OK with women pastors and gay members.

I'm using sociological categorizations that Stephen Scott used.
I understand that denominations don't vote. I'm trying to get info about individuals.

Of Anabaptists in the US and Canada who are fine with women pastors...

1. What rough guestimate do you have for those who typically vote Democrat, and are ok with Christians practicing a LGBTQ lifestyle?
2. What rough guestimate do you have for those who typically vote Democrat, and are not ok with Christians practicing a LGBTQ lifestyle?
3. What rough guestimate do you have for those who typically vote Republican, and are ok with Christians practicing a LGBTQ lifestyle?
4. What rough guestimate do you have for those who typically vote Republican, and are not ok with Christians practicing a LGBTQ lifestyle?
5. What rough guestimate do you have for those who identify as Independent, who sometimes vote Democrat and sometimes vote Republican?
6. What rough guestimate do you have for those who don't vote at all?

Yeah, these are questions best answered by talking to the conferences themselves.

[Ken]

This is the problem with your categories. Because denominations don’t vote. People vote. And if we are talking about people then there are plenty of them who would consider themselves mainstream/mainline who attend CMC churches and who are OK with women pastors and gay members.

I'm using sociological categorizations that Stephen Scott used.
I understand that denominations don't vote. I'm trying to get info about individuals.

Of Anabaptists in the US and Canada who are fine with women pastors...

1. What rough guestimate do you have for those who typically vote Democrat, and are ok with Christians practicing a LGBTQ lifestyle?
2. What rough guestimate do you have for those who typically vote Democrat, and are not ok with Christians practicing a LGBTQ lifestyle?
3. What rough guestimate do you have for those who typically vote Republican, and are ok with Christians practicing a LGBTQ lifestyle?
4. What rough guestimate do you have for those who typically vote Republican, and are not ok with Christians practicing a LGBTQ lifestyle?
5. What rough guestimate do you have for those who identify as Independent, who sometimes vote Democrat and sometimes vote Republican?
6. What rough guestimate do you have for those who don't vote at all?

Yeah, these are questions best answered by talking to the conferences themselves.

How would any conferences know? Has any conference ever surveyed its members on their political leanings? I frankly doubt it.

[Szdfan]

I'm using sociological categorizations that Stephen Scott used.
I understand that denominations don't vote. I'm trying to get info about individuals.

Of Anabaptists in the US and Canada who are fine with women pastors...

1. What rough guestimate do you have for those who typically vote Democrat, and are ok with Christians practicing a LGBTQ lifestyle?
2. What rough guestimate do you have for those who typically vote Democrat, and are not ok with Christians practicing a LGBTQ lifestyle?
3. What rough guestimate do you have for those who typically vote Republican, and are ok with Christians practicing a LGBTQ lifestyle?
4. What rough guestimate do you have for those who typically vote Republican, and are not ok with Christians practicing a LGBTQ lifestyle?
5. What rough guestimate do you have for those who identify as Independent, who sometimes vote Democrat and sometimes vote Republican?
6. What rough guestimate do you have for those who don't vote at all?

Yeah, these are questions best answered by talking to the conferences themselves.

How would any conferences know? Has any conference ever surveyed its members on their political leanings? I frankly doubt it.

That's the question. But they're more likely to know than we randos here.

[Ken]

Yeah, these are questions best answered by talking to the conferences themselves.

How would any conferences know? Has any conference ever surveyed its members on their political leanings? I frankly doubt it.

That's the question. But they're more likely to know than we randos here.

I suspect the answer is that most congregations are more or less a reflection of their communities.

A MCUSA church in Portland OR or Denver CO is going to have a more liberal membership than one in Belleville PA or rural Kansas. And their voting patterns probably more or less reflect those of the communities and precincts in which they are located.