Mennonite Measles in Texas

[justme]

Not everyone agrees on what the "facts" are.

that is painfully obvious

[Bootstrap]

Not everyone agrees on what the "facts" are.

that is painfully obvious

But I think it's helpful for people to point to some verifiable source of fact if they are making scientific claims. None of our opinions are facts. Skepticism is not the same thing as fact. Fear is not the same thing as fact.

[QuietlyListening]

JohnH, you stay hung up on Covid and how it was dealt with. Measles is a disease that has been around a long time and the science behind it is fairly well established- for most people- there are some who probably would contend with how it is dealt with. Covid was new, many things were done that in the end did not work but at the time scientists/medical people were trying to figure out the best way to deal with it. Yes mistakes were made but that doesn't negate all the work public health has done for other diseases. While maybe only a small % of folks get a serious case of measles and other childhood diseases- those serious affects can be life threatening or life changing. And to purposely ignore ways to prevent the spread seems to me to be uncaring, unloving and just plain sad that folks care that little about how it could affect other people because they think they know better.

[JohnH]

JohnH, you stay hung up on Covid and how it was dealt with. Measles is a disease that has been around a long time and the science behind it is fairly well established- for most people- there are some who probably would contend with how it is dealt with. Covid was new, many things were done that in the end did not work but at the time scientists/medical people were trying to figure out the best way to deal with it.

Public health officials did not figure out the best way to do deal with it. We now know that the six-foot rule was simply made up. Stuff like that doesn't build up trust.

Yes mistakes were made but that doesn't negate all the work public health has done for other diseases.

Actually, it does. If they handled a pandemic so poorly, why should I trust anything else they say?

While maybe only a small % of folks get a serious case of measles and other childhood diseases- those serious affects can be life threatening or life changing.

This is the language of fear and threats. "You have to do what we say or ELSE!" It is not the language that a reasonable person uses who is simply stating unbiased facts. Instead, it is analogous to witch doctors who rule with fear and use that fear to keep the people who come to them compliant and obedient.

And to purposely ignore ways to prevent the spread seems to me to be uncaring, unloving and just plain sad that folks care that little about how it could affect other people because they think they know better.

I don't think highly contagious diseases can, well, be prevented from spreading. We already observed that with COVID. Preventing its spread was impossible, even in places like NZ and Victoria. You can't prevent flus from spreading. You can't prevent colds.

It turns out that Old Colonists typically have not been vaccinated for measles and simply are not terribly concerned about it. It is just a normal childhood illness to them (like all the other ones your kids frequently get). I think I prefer how they live through faith instead of fear.

Nonetheless, if you want to get vaccinated, that is your choice.

[JohnH]

But I think it's helpful for people to point to some verifiable source of fact if they are making scientific claims. None of our opinions are facts. Skepticism is not the same thing as fact. Fear is not the same thing as fact.

Alright then. Let's see those verifiable sources of fact for why we had to have 6 feet of separation during COVID.

Any takers?

[R7ehr]

But I think it's helpful for people to point to some verifiable source of fact if they are making scientific claims. None of our opinions are facts. Skepticism is not the same thing as fact. Fear is not the same thing as fact.

Alright then. Let's see those verifiable sources of fact for why we had to have 6 feet of separation during COVID.

Any takers?

My memory says that the professionals never claimed the 6 feet was ever anything scientific at all, but rather from the outset a mere attempt to balance a need for some distance/space without completely closing everything down.
I just don’t remember it ever being claimed as some scientific distance at all - yet it is decried today by many as if it were. It’s sort of a straw man.

[JohnH]

My memory says that the professionals never claimed the 6 feet was ever anything scientific at all, but rather from the outset a mere attempt to balance a need for some distance/space without completely closing everything down.
I just don’t remember it ever being claimed as some scientific distance at all - yet it is decried today by many as if it were. It’s sort of a straw man.

We weren't given any information at all other than that we had to do whatever public health authorities told us, and questioning them was something we weren't supposed to do. The phrase "trust the science" was one I often heard.

It turns out that nearly everything we were told to was grossly unscientific and not based on facts, and it was all promoted by public health authorities, such as:

- Pulling children out of school for a year - widely seen as a gigantic mistake now
- Telling us to wipe down surfaces (COVID doesn't spread that way)
- 6 ft separation
- Telling people not to sing at church services
- For the first two months, instructing people not to wear masks.
- Then after that, making masks mandatory.

(For the latter two, obviously both cannot be correct.)

[Bootstrap]

But I think it's helpful for people to point to some verifiable source of fact if they are making scientific claims. None of our opinions are facts. Skepticism is not the same thing as fact. Fear is not the same thing as fact.

Alright then. Let's see those verifiable sources of fact for why we had to have 6 feet of separation during COVID.

Any takers?

Or perhaps discuss the subject of this thread without heckling? I don't think this thread is about COVID. And I don't think anyone claimed we had the same level of knowledge of COVID that we have of measles at that time, but that probably needs a thread of its own if we want to go down that path. And that thread is likely to get political.

So let's have this thread be about Mennonite Measles in Texas.

Any takers?

[JohnH]

Or perhaps discuss the subject of this thread without heckling?

Nobody's "heckling".

I don't think this thread is about COVID.

Right - it's mostly about public health, and is a discussion between some people who think public health authorities should be respected and followed, and others who are skeptical of the whole public health industry now.

ASo let's have this thread be about Mennonite Measles in Texas.

Frankly I find the term "Mennonite Measles" to be a bit offensive, as if they're somehow at fault for the disease or the disease belongs to them.

Haven't you elsewhere said we shouldn't do things like blame migrants or minority people groups for bringing diseases into a country?

[Soloist]

Okay I am again requesting that we rant and complain about covid elsewhere...