Mennonite Measles in Texas

[Szdfan]

Come for the Mennonite measles, stay for the animal dissection. Just wanted to say that I enjoyed that sidebar. Carry on.

[Judas Maccabeus]

Come for the Mennonite measles, stay for the animal dissection. Just wanted to say that I enjoyed that sidebar. Carry on.

Hey, both of us teach science. Our service to our community. Make Science Great Again!

[JohnH]

The big diffference is that the economic barriers to seeking prompt primary care at the first sign of trouble are simply not there. People can and do go in at the first sign of trouble. The care is already paid for by the NHS>

In America primary care is either free or has a modest copay (usually $10 or $20). I think people in America can afford this.

If someone is paying out of pocket, it is typically $80. I also think people can afford this.

I am not particularly wealthy, and yet I could afford this if my child were very sick.

Wherever are you getting these stats anyway? I can't seem to find anything like this.[/quote]

https://vaccineknowledge.ox.ac.uk/measles

Oh, yes, they had the common sense to "strike off" that quack Wakefield. He cannot present himself as a physician there as he is no longer such. Wish we had such common sense.

I have no idea what you are rambling about.

I wish we had struck off the quack known as Dr. Fauci.

[Judas Maccabeus]

The big diffference is that the economic barriers to seeking prompt primary care at the first sign of trouble are simply not there. People can and do go in at the first sign of trouble. The care is already paid for by the NHS>

In America primary care is either free or has a modest copay (usually $10 or $20). I think people in America can afford this.

If someone is paying out of pocket, it is typically $80. I also think people can afford this.

I am not particularly wealthy, and yet I could afford this if my child were very sick.

Wherever are you getting these stats anyway? I can't seem to find anything like this.

https://vaccineknowledge.ox.ac.uk/measles

Oh, yes, they had the common sense to "strike off" that quack Wakefield. He cannot present himself as a physician there as he is no longer such. Wish we had such common sense.

I have no idea what you are rambling about.

I wish we had struck off the quack known as Dr. Fauci.
[/quote]

80$? Are you dreaming, an urgent care visit without insurance can take you upward of 150$, and a hospital ER visit can go upward of 500$, more if they use advanced imaging like a CT. There may be places that do primary wellness visits for 80$, I have seen such, but urgent problem-focused visits are a whole different CPT code, and attract higher "reimbursement" if you will. You know my employment history, and you know I know how the system works. For some in our midst, 150-200$ each for 4 or 5 children is an unaffordable burden. Some delay approaching their church, far longer than they should.

Wakefield, the originator of the "vaccine causes autism" idea was found in a tribunal that he had agreed in advance to for, among other things, working with a solicitor by generating dubious evidence to support a lawsuit, and was removed from medical practice in the UK, hence, "struck off" of the list or physicians and surgeons.

Fauci did some stupid things. I have no time for him either. His existence does not warrant a complete removal of scientific, research-based, evidence-driven understanding of medicine.

Things like, ivermectin as a cure-all, massive doses of Vitamin A, and cod liver oil are examples of this. Vaccines cause autism is another.

[JohnH]

80$? Are you dreaming, an urgent care visit without insurance can take you upward of 150$, and a hospital ER visit can go upward of 500$, more if they use advanced imaging like a CT.

In America, people either have Medicaid (or CHIP etc.) which would cover everything. Or they have health insurance. Or if they're Mennonites, they might be in some kind of mutual aid plan. Either way, they can afford health care. (I guess someone really wealthy could decide to have no insurance and just pay out of pocket.) Hospitals have financial aid offices open - which will look at someone's income and provide a "sliding scale". I already discussed it earlier on MennoNet that the hospitals in the region around there have an HCAP type of program to provide reduced cost or free care to uninsured patients in need.

The last time I was in a setting where I had to pay cash pay prices, I checked with my doctors' office and $80 was the prevailing price for basically any visit. Including acute visits.

There may be places that do primary wellness visits for 80$, I have seen such, but urgent problem-focused visits are a whole different CPT code, and attract higher "reimbursement" if you will. You know my employment history, and you know I know how the system works. For some in our midst, 150-200$ each for 4 or 5 children is an unaffordable burden. Some delay approaching their church, far longer than they should.

When's the last time you actually paid cash for a medical appointment? It is not nearly as bad to a person in need as it is made out to be. Nearly every system has ways to take care of it (if they are nonprofit, they basically have to).

$150-$200 is not an unaffordable burden either. I see what plain people spend money on. And if there is a need, they can ask for help. If someone's pride gets in the way of that, well, pride is a sin.

Wakefield, the originator of the "vaccine causes autism" idea was found in a tribunal that he had agreed in advance to for, among other things, working with a solicitor by generating dubious evidence to support a lawsuit, and was removed from medical practice in the UK, hence, "struck off" of the list or physicians and surgeons.

Are we discussing vaccines causing autism here on MennoNet? If not, do you wish to start?

Fauci did some stupid things. I have no time for him either. His existence does not warrant a complete removal of scientific, research-based, evidence-driven understanding of medicine.

What he did dismantled the illusion that we have anything approaching a "scientific", "research-based", "evidence-driven" understanding of medicine. And many of us started to look a little deeper into a lot of things. There is no clearly defined authority now. I mean, do you think we should just believe whatever RFK's NIH/CDC tells us to think?

[Judas Maccabeus]

The big diffference is that the economic barriers to seeking prompt primary care at the first sign of trouble are simply not there. People can and do go in at the first sign of trouble. The care is already paid for by the NHS>

In America primary care is either free or has a modest copay (usually $10 or $20). I think people in America can afford this.

If someone is paying out of pocket, it is typically $80. I also think people can afford this.

I am not particularly wealthy, and yet I could afford this if my child were very sick.

Wherever are you getting these stats anyway? I can't seem to find anything like this.

https://vaccineknowledge.ox.ac.uk/measles

Oh, yes, they had the common sense to "strike off" that quack Wakefield. He cannot present himself as a physician there as he is no longer such. Wish we had such common sense.

I have no idea what you are rambling about.

I wish we had struck off the quack known as Dr. Fauci.
[/quote]

if you look carefully at Oxford's statistics, 1 in 500 is about the midpoint between what they quote as the UK's experience in a highly developed public health system and the 1 in 100 they quote for the third world. SO, in a less efficient system like ours, 1 in 500 is almost certainly what you could expect here.

[Judas Maccabeus]

80$? Are you dreaming, an urgent care visit without insurance can take you upward of 150$, and a hospital ER visit can go upward of 500$, more if they use advanced imaging like a CT.

In America, people either have Medicaid (or CHIP etc.) which would cover everything. Or they have health insurance. Or if they're Mennonites, they might be in some kind of mutual aid plan. Either way, they can afford health care. (I guess someone really wealthy could decide to have no insurance and just pay out of pocket.) Hospitals have financial aid offices open - which will look at someone's income and provide a "sliding scale". I already discussed it earlier on MennoNet that the hospitals in the region around there have an HCAP type of program to provide reduced cost or free care to uninsured patients in need.

The last time I was in a setting where I had to pay cash pay prices, I checked with my doctors' office and $80 was the prevailing price for basically any visit. Including acute visits.

There may be places that do primary wellness visits for 80$, I have seen such, but urgent problem-focused visits are a whole different CPT code, and attract higher "reimbursement" if you will. You know my employment history, and you know I know how the system works. For some in our midst, 150-200$ each for 4 or 5 children is an unaffordable burden. Some delay approaching their church, far longer than they should.

When's the last time you actually paid cash for a medical appointment? It is not nearly as bad to a person in need as it is made out to be. Nearly every system has ways to take care of it (if they are nonprofit, they basically have to).

$150-$200 is not an unaffordable burden either. I see what plain people spend money on. And if there is a need, they can ask for help. If someone's pride gets in the way of that, well, pride is a sin.

Wakefield, the originator of the "vaccine causes autism" idea was found in a tribunal that he had agreed in advance to for, among other things, working with a solicitor by generating dubious evidence to support a lawsuit, and was removed from medical practice in the UK, hence, "struck off" of the list or physicians and surgeons.

Are we discussing vaccines causing autism here on MennoNet? If not, do you wish to start?

Fauci did some stupid things. I have no time for him either. His existence does not warrant a complete removal of scientific, research-based, evidence-driven understanding of medicine.

What he did dismantled the illusion that we have anything approaching a "scientific", "research-based", "evidence-driven" understanding of medicine. And many of us started to look a little deeper into a lot of things. There is no clearly defined authority now. I mean, do you think we should just believe whatever RFK's NIH/CDC tells us to think?

Speak for yourself. I know of families for which that would be a major lift. Not everyone is as prosperous as you seem to think we are.

I cannot use words on this forum to express what I think of this push towards the "de-evidenceing" of medicine I see today. There are now two children dead, almost certainly more to follow. All unnecessary.

[JohnH]

if you look carefully at Oxford's statistics, 1 in 500 is about the midpoint between what they quote as the UK's experience in a highly developed public health system and the 1 in 100 they quote for the third world. SO, in a less efficient system like ours, 1 in 500 is almost certainly what you could expect here.

If you look carefully at the website I posted, you'd see it's 1 in 5000.

The American healthcare system is fine. I'd argue it's better than NHS, based on personal experiences of people who have experienced very poor care with NHS. I don't think America has trouble providing effective care. Where I live we have great ERs which get people in and out quickly.

[Judas Maccabeus]

I am still waiting for your 80 emergency care visit without insurance. I looked up the median for the relevant CPT code. It is not 80$, if the child is sick. Many in our community do not have insurance, remember?

[JohnH]

Speak for yourself. I know of families for which that would be a major lift. Not everyone is as prosperous as you seem to think we are.

I am speaking for myself. If someone is below 250% of the poverty line (generally speaking), they have access to reduced-cost or free medical care. If they're above 250% of the poverty line, they can afford $150 or $200.

250% of FPL in Texas is about $120k annual income. Someone earning that can afford $150 or $200 for doctor visits for their sick children. If they can't, they need a serious reevaluation of their priorities.

Again, I would advise anyone to get medical care when needed and if they can't afford it, book an appointment with the financial counselling office at the hospital or medical system. They are there to help and will help families know programs they are eligible for.

I cannot use words on this forum to express what I think of this push towards the "de-evidenceing" of medicine I see today. There are now two children dead, almost certainly more to follow. All unnecessary.

The COVID vaccines were the worst thing to ever happen to vaccine "branding". Engineered with stem cells; no non-stem cell alternative offered; threatening no job/no school if you don't take it. A lot of us started questioning things and looking into actual evidence after that.

Things were fine in the 1950s before we had measles vaccines. I have talked to parents and grandparents. It simply wasn't a big deal. It also isn't a big deal in Mexico where a lot of Mennonites just didn't bother with vaccines in general. They are used to getting measles and it not being a big deal.