Can Politicians be Followers of Jesus?

[JohnH]

There's nothing wrong with cleaning fish or changing a diaper or whistling or running, but I would not do these things in church.

I can attest to both of these happenings in the confines of a church building, and changing dirty diapers right in the middle of a church service.

In certain Pentecostal type of settings, running is also common...

[Bootstrap]

There's nothing wrong with cleaning fish or changing a diaper or whistling or running, but I would not do these things in church.

I can attest to both of these happenings in the confines of a church building, and changing dirty diapers right in the middle of a church service.

In certain Pentecostal type of settings, running is also common...

I've changed diapers in a church building too, just not in the sanctuary. And changing diapers does have support in 1 Corinthians 15:51:

We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed.

[ken_sylvania]

There's nothing wrong with cleaning fish or changing a diaper or whistling or running, but I would not do these things in church.

I can attest to both of these happenings in the confines of a church building, and changing dirty diapers right in the middle of a church service.

In certain Pentecostal type of settings, running is also common...

I've changed diapers in a church building too, just not in the sanctuary. And changing diapers does have support in 1 Corinthians 15:51:

We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed.

The only way that is support for changing diapers is if you identify as a diaper, seeing as it says "we" shall be changed.

[Ernie]

I think this instance is the closest Jesus comes to "calling out" a "politician" that I'm aware of.

Thinking how something similar might play out today, would the following be accurate?

You are regularly out in the streets of Washington D.C. proclaiming what the NT KOG is like and inviting the common people to follow Jesus, when a local religious leader who doesn't like the message you are proclaiming, comes up and tells you that President Trump is not happy with what you are proclaiming and is going to have you arrested. You tell this religious leader to go tell Trump, who, FYI, is ungodly, conniving and anti-Jesus, that regardless what you threaten against me, I am going to keep proclaiming Jesus' Kingdom until God's time for me to die.

The primary point Jesus seems to making to those listening is that regardless the threats against Him by an earthly government, He's going to keep doing the will of His Father. If the point was to speak out against Herod's character, I think that would be reflected in what He said after using the term fox to describe Herod. Instead He bemoans the condition of "religious" Jerusalem.

I think it was both... Speaking out against Herod's character, and also to bemoan the condition of the religious.

And as I said before, I do not neatly separate the Jewish leaders into religious vs. political/civil. I think most of them were both, with some being more one than the other.
Just the same as today. We have people who are primarily civil leaders claiming to be followers of Jesus and saying that this influences their political views, and we have people who are primarily religious leaders who are inserting themselves into the political/civil government world.

Question: Do you view publicly calling a civil leader a fox as something only God has the right to do, or is this something his followers are welcome to do as well?

I think all of Jesus followers should feel free to do as Jesus did when he told the Pharisees who told Him that Herod was planning to kill Him, that the mission Jesus' Father had sent Him to fulfill was not going to be deterred by some conniving and wicked earthly ruler like Herod. I see that as a making strong statement in support of a clear distinction between the two Kingdoms and gets to the heart of the title of this thread.

To me that is different than appearing to take a political position by speaking out against policies earthly governments implement and using Jesus' Kingdom's policies as an argument for the position. Taking such a position suggests that politicians who advocate for implementing policies that are not in opposition to Jesus' Kingdom shouldn't be called out as much as those who do.

There are policies the Democratic party supports that are not in opposition to Jesus' Kingdom and the same is true of the Republican party. If it's good for followers of Jesus to call out the policies that are opposed to Jesus' Kingdom, it should also be good to get involved in anti-abortion protests or pro-immigration rallies that put pressure on politicians to do the right thing. If it's good for followers of Jesus to get involved in pressure campaigns like these, it should also be good to get involved in the campaigns of politicians running for office who support policies not opposed to Jesus' Kingdom. If it's good for followers of Jesus to get involved in the campaigns of these politicians, it should also be good to become a politician in earthly government as long as nothing is advocated for that is not in opposition to the way of Jesus. That's how you get "Christian politicians".

The hybridization of church and state always starts somewhere. I'm suggesting it's best to keep the two separate and to constantly remind everyone, "Christian" politicians included, that, in Jesus' view, the two CAN'T be mixed. That is something that can be preached Sunday - Saturday.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I agree with your last paragraph for sure and most of the other paragraphs.

If it's good for followers of Jesus to call out the policies that are opposed to Jesus' Kingdom, it should also be good to get involved in anti-abortion protests or pro-immigration rallies that put pressure on politicians to do the right thing.

I don't draw conclusions such as these. I think the one is good for Christians to do and the other is not good and I don't have any trouble separating the two.

And if you have an answer to my question, I would be glad to hear that as well.

[ken_sylvania]

And if you have an answer to my question, I would be glad to hear that as well.

I thought he answered it with this:

I think all of Jesus followers should feel free to do as Jesus did when he told the Pharisees who told Him that Herod was planning to kill Him, that the mission Jesus' Father had sent Him to fulfill was not going to be deterred by some conniving and wicked earthly ruler like Herod. I see that as a making strong statement in support of a clear distinction between the two Kingdoms and gets to the heart of the title of this thread.

I think he's saying context matters, and in the right context it is appropriate.

[GaryK]

And if you have an answer to my question, I would be glad to hear that as well.

I thought he answered it with this:

I think all of Jesus followers should feel free to do as Jesus did when he told the Pharisees who told Him that Herod was planning to kill Him, that the mission Jesus' Father had sent Him to fulfill was not going to be deterred by some conniving and wicked earthly ruler like Herod. I see that as a making strong statement in support of a clear distinction between the two Kingdoms and gets to the heart of the title of this thread.

I think he's saying context matters, and in the right context it is appropriate.

Yes, that was my attempted answer to the question, Ernie.

And yes, I think context matters and if a similar situation arose, I would not hesitate to say something similar to what Jesus said about Herod.

[GaryK]

If it's good for followers of Jesus to call out the policies that are opposed to Jesus' Kingdom, it should also be good to get involved in anti-abortion protests or pro-immigration rallies that put pressure on politicians to do the right thing.

I don't draw conclusions such as these. I think the one is good for Christians to do and the other is not good and I don't have any trouble separating the two.

What would you say is the purpose of calling out particular policies that are opposed to Jesus' Kingdom that have been put in place by a political process? I assumed it was to let the politicians supporting them know that they shouldn't be supporting them. I guess I assumed that because of posts like this.

I think "calling out" the actions of civil leaders, political leaders, pundits, and Christians who are supporting political movements should be done in town squares, by the side of the road, in personal conversations, in newspapers and books, blogs, and of course on Mennonet.

[Ernie]

And if you have an answer to my question, I would be glad to hear that as well.

I thought he answered it with this:

I think all of Jesus followers should feel free to do as Jesus did when he told the Pharisees who told Him that Herod was planning to kill Him, that the mission Jesus' Father had sent Him to fulfill was not going to be deterred by some conniving and wicked earthly ruler like Herod. I see that as a making strong statement in support of a clear distinction between the two Kingdoms and gets to the heart of the title of this thread.

I think he's saying context matters, and in the right context it is appropriate.

Yes, that was my attempted answer to the question, Ernie.

And yes, I think context matters and if a similar situation arose, I would not hesitate to say something similar to what Jesus said about Herod.

Ok. I didn't understand your answer to include publicly calling a political leader a fox.

[ken_sylvania]

I thought he answered it with this:

I think he's saying context matters, and in the right context it is appropriate.

Yes, that was my attempted answer to the question, Ernie.

And yes, I think context matters and if a similar situation arose, I would not hesitate to say something similar to what Jesus said about Herod.

Ok. I didn't understand your answer to include publicly calling a political leader a fox.

I think it's helpful to consider the focus of Jesus' answer. What was the main point of what Jesus was saying. Was the Herod the subject of his answer, or was Jesus' fixed determination to continue in the will of His Father the main point. That's why I'm uncomfortable taking this as an example of calling out a political leaders errors.

[joshuabgood]

There is also the generation of vipers comment.