JohnH wrote: ↑Wed Mar 26, 2025 8:52 pm
I have chosen not to place my religious belief in a hope of vaccines. As I may remind you, we were told the COVID vaccine prevented infection. It did not.
That is a good thing because religion and science are two different things.
And no, you were never told that the COVID vaccine prevented infection. At least not by the CDC or vaccine makers. You will not find that statement anywhere on the CDC web site or in the documents surrounding the vaccine trials.
What you were told was that the vaccines were effective in preventing symptomatic COVID. And that they were highly effective in reducing the rates of mortality and severe illness. And the evidence has born out all of those claims.
In other words, what you were actually told was that the vaccines greatly reduce your chance of getting severely sick or dying of COVID. Which is actually (1) what is important, and (2) what people actually cared about.
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A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
JohnH wrote: ↑Wed Mar 26, 2025 8:52 pm
I have chosen not to place my religious belief in a hope of vaccines. As I may remind you, we were told the COVID vaccine prevented infection. It did not.
No, you place it in internet conspiracy theories that have not a thread of proof.
Actually the claim was that it prevented transmission. Prevents is not an absolute term, it means to suppress or reduce it. I do not recall hearing that it completely eliminated any possibility of transmission, although people may have said that.
And thus, all of the "research" and "double blind studies" (whoops - did the COVID vaccine actually have any)? - was for nothing. Because if the research claimed it prevented infection, and it doesn't, then the rest of the research can't be trusted. Including that it's "safe".
Have you bothered to read the EUA submission ? It contained large scale double blind studies with an independent monitor holding the coded results until the endpoint was reached. It was VERY effective at preventing symptomatic COVID. The entire EUA submission is available, if you bothered to look.
As you probably could suspect, I was involved in clinical trials. I know how they are run, and what procedural and scientific safeguards are involved. My institution was directly involved in the IND/NDA process for a drug called Medbrofennin. I know what a proper NDA looks like. Effectively, the EUAs contained all of the supporting data one would expect in an NDA. (NDA-New Drug Application, IND Investigational New Drug)
Conspiracy theory is maybe a loaded phrase. Perhaps it would be more accurate to just call it scientific illiteracy. And a sign that scientific education is falling short in your community.
Two fundamental skills that are wrapped into modern science teaching standards are critical thinking and the ability to critically evaluate scientific information and sources. If people are blaming a vaccine for their cancer that shows a lack of critical thinking skills and an inability to critically evaluate scientific information. As does the assertion that the vaccine didn’t work to protect lives and severe illness.
Rest assured I studied science in college so I am not “scientifically illiterate”.
I was mostly persuaded by a board certified medical provider who also has a doctorate. She is not scientifically illiterate either. Just because people don’t agree with you doesn’t mean they are ignorant.
It's called "Turbo Cancer" and is indeed a conspiracy spawned by the anti-vax crowd.
2021: gets vaccine
2022: gets cancer #1, treated, major complications
2023: gets cancer #2, treated, still recovering from complications
2024: gets cancer #3. Brutal chemotherapy so operating is even possible.
2025: major surgery for cancer #3.
-or-
2021: doesn’t get the vaccine
2022:
2023:
2024: had a cold? Was it Covid? Who knows?
2025:
There are a vast number of doctors and nurses who agree with you zJohnH
JohnH wrote: ↑Wed Mar 26, 2025 8:52 pm
I have chosen not to place my religious belief in a hope of vaccines. As I may remind you, we were told the COVID vaccine prevented infection. It did not.
No, you place it in internet conspiracy theories that have not a thread of proof.
Actually the claim was that it prevented transmission. Prevents is not an absolute term, it means to suppress or reduce it. I do not recall hearing that it completely eliminated any possibility of transmission, although people may have said that.
It didn't prevent transmission either - it's a non-sterilizing vaccine. Basically useless, much like that other fraud we get perpetrated on us each year, the flu vaccine.
Judas Maccabeus wrote: ↑Wed Mar 26, 2025 9:35 pm
Have you bothered to read the EUA submission ? It contained large scale double blind studies with an independent monitor holding the coded results until the endpoint was reached. It was VERY effective at preventing symptomatic COVID. The entire EUA submission is available, if you bothered to look.
I did. The actual amount of trials performed was laughable (from memory, it was around 34 people who were conducted in a double-blind fashion and that was over a span of a few weeks). I will be frank: seeing how much "science" was skipped and the entire normal process for making safe vaccines short-circuited is a large part of what led me to lose my faith in the priesthood of vaccine "science".
And yet you folks still refuse to ever admit you were wrong. The COVID vaccine did not work, does not work, and the only positive effect was on Moderna and Pfizer's shareholders and executives. They made a lot of money - more than they ever had made before. But it did zip for public health.
I suppose one good outcome is that it did create so much skepticism in vaccines. If you like vaccines, you should be unhappy about what the COVID "vaccine" did to your credibility.
JohnH wrote: ↑Wed Mar 26, 2025 8:52 pm
I have chosen not to place my religious belief in a hope of vaccines. As I may remind you, we were told the COVID vaccine prevented infection. It did not.
That is a good thing because religion and science are two different things.
And no, you were never told that the COVID vaccine prevented infection. At least not by the CDC or vaccine makers. You will not find that statement anywhere on the CDC web site or in the documents surrounding the vaccine trials.
What you were told was that the vaccines were effective in preventing symptomatic COVID. And that they were highly effective in reducing the rates of mortality and severe illness. And the evidence has born out all of those claims.
In other words, what you were actually told was that the vaccines greatly reduce your chance of getting severely sick or dying of COVID. Which is actually (1) what is important, and (2) what people actually cared about.
Ken, I was alive in 2020 and my memory isn't fault. We were told that the COVID vaccine will prevent transmission. It did no such thing.
We were also threatened with losing our jobs, not being allowed to go to school, and not being allowed to worship if we didn't submit to getting the COVID vaccine. I haven't forgotten about that either.
Valerie wrote: ↑Wed Mar 26, 2025 9:41 pm
There are a vast number of doctors and nurses who agree with you zJohnH
There sure, and I've talked to some of them. That's part of the reason I'm very skeptical of them now. Many Ph.Ds, doctors, and other medical and scientific experts have spoken and written about the problems with vaccines, particularly the COVID ones. And they have done so at very great risk to themselves - Big Pharma doesn't want to see its profits threatened.
JohnH wrote: ↑Wed Mar 26, 2025 8:52 pm
I have chosen not to place my religious belief in a hope of vaccines. As I may remind you, we were told the COVID vaccine prevented infection. It did not.
No, you place it in internet conspiracy theories that have not a thread of proof.
Actually the claim was that it prevented transmission. Prevents is not an absolute term, it means to suppress or reduce it. I do not recall hearing that it completely eliminated any possibility of transmission, although people may have said that.
It didn't prevent transmission either - it's a non-sterilizing vaccine. Basically useless, much like that other fraud we get perpetrated on us each year, the flu vaccine.
When my husband was in ICU with Covid, the vaccinated visitor & I walked in ICU together & the nurse warned the vaccinated one that he could still get it -
I have had several nurses tell me they were against the vaccine, and also debunked the mask, which Vleveland Clinic dropped. It really all depends on which doctors and which science you came to believe because there are those with doctorates who disagree with others with doctorates and I really have lost trust in many ways. Not “all” ways, but discernment in who to believe has become more important.