Mennonite Measles in Texas

[JohnH]

Every single thing you eat, every single thing you drink, and every single thing you breathe gets into your bloodstream. Injections are just the most efficient way of getting a specific measured amount of a substance into your bloodstream or tissue. But if you breathe polluted air that goes straight into your lungs and into the capillaries of your bloodstream, which is the same way that every breath of oxygen also gets into your bloodstream

Likewise every time you eat or drink anything it is absorbed by the villi in your small intestine into your bloodstream where it is distributed throughout your body. Same thing when you drink any liquids like water, or any pollutants or contaminants in your food or water.

So I fail to understand why people fixate on a couple of ml of a vaccine getting injected into their tissue or bloodstream when they are consuming, drinking, and breathing an extraordinary array of chemicals and substances every single day that also go straight into their bloodstream and get distributed to their tissues and organs and body cells in the same exact way that vaccines do.

I don’t eat aborted babies.

[Judas Maccabeus]

The theological position of the Mennonite church is well established, in writing, and contained in the various confessions of faith and rules of discipline that are in full public view, if you care to look.

The “Mennonite church” doesn’t have a consistent position on gay marriage or whether members can be police officers. It is nonsense to claim the “Mennonite church” has a position on vaccinations or not.

One longstanding position though in Anabaptism is the importance of individual conscience. Sometimes this distills down to something you might disagree with, like not putting an orange reflective mark on a buggy, putting bright LED lights on a buggy, or wearing an orange vest when hunting. This doesn’t make those religious convictions any less valid.

The mennonite church has never had a position against vaccination. If you know of one, enlighten me, but my shelf is full, and I have checked them all. Hence, it is not a religious conviction, but one apparently driven by the misinformation that is out there. In other words, it is based on a lie, told by non-mennonites that has penetrated our communities. I have dealt with this before, and what I get is "I've done my own research." The rough translation is I have seen something or heard something, and I do not wish to subject it to facts.

There are two Mennonites right here who have a position against vaccination (or other medical treatments) that use stem cells.

If you have a Mennonite Church document that shows a position against vaccination, I would love to see it. I doubt you can find one.

This isn’t the Catholic Church. There is no central authority that dispenses documents with official dogma.

Personally, I have a hard time respecting any Mennonite group that does things like watch DVDs, TV, embrace the radio etc but for the sake of unity I try to take people in worldly Mennonite groups seriously. I would ask that you show the rest of us the same respect.

No, but we are a confessional movement, that decides things in a conciliar setting. While we obviously have no central authority, decisions are made in a setting where there is a process, and the results are disseminated publicly. The gay marriage decision of MCUSA is a perfect example. That decision, however, like all, is only binding on the group that made it as a part of the process. It only applies to those who, as a group made it. If you want to find out what it actually says, it is out in the open.

Individuals do not get to define Mennonite doctrine, only the Church, conference or however they organize do. Individuals do not speak individually for the church, it speaks as a whole. That is why we write down our confessions of faith, and our standards of conduct. Having written standards is one of the more controversial aspects of our movement, did you not know that?

So, why, if you have such convictions, why are you even here?

[Southerner]

If you have a Mennonite Church document that shows a position against vaccination, I would love to see it. I doubt you can find one.

This isn’t the Catholic Church. There is no central authority that dispenses documents with official dogma.

Personally, I have a hard time respecting any Mennonite group that does things like watch DVDs, TV, embrace the radio etc but for the sake of unity I try to take people in worldly Mennonite groups seriously. I would ask that you show the rest of us the same respect.

What is a DVD?

[Soloist]

The intersection of personal convictions and church standards differ from church to church.
One church refuses to permit beards, another mustaches, another mandates beards, one requires see through caps, another veils.

Meanwhile there are some who permit beards for conviction but not otherwise, opaque caps provided you don’t judge others.
Some require caps on toddlers, some not until confession, some at a older age…
Mennonites have a great deal of diversity for their standards even within the same conference or fellowship.

I have never found anyone ordained with the exception of present company who would object to my conviction and has been nothing but respectful if not agreeing.
I know of a church through an Anabaptist doctor who does have a specific stance against fetal developed/produced vaccines although I don’t know its name.
Personal convictions has been encouraged by Mennonites unless it goes against established church practice or doctrine. To say otherwise is a serious misunderstanding of Mennonite/Anabaptist teachings and to deflect it by saying it’s only outsiders is a disservice to practice if only true blood Mennonites can speak of what “we” believe.

[JohnH]

My denomination does discourage conspiracy theories and excessive "alternative" medicine. The COVID vaccine marked a change in our attitudes towards vaccines, as many people chose to reject them, and this was no longer fringe or a conspiracy theory. Now, many choose to avoid vaccines for personal reasons, conviction, or even just a preference, and now this is acceptable.

Things often change including science. Outdated advice from the 1960s does not have to be followed in 2025.

It is unfortunate now that many brethren and sisters who did take the COVID vaccine are suffering from cancer and other serious health problems.

[Judas Maccabeus]

The intersection of personal convictions and church standards differ from church to church.
One church refuses to permit beards, another mustaches, another mandates beards, one requires see through caps, another veils.

Meanwhile there are some who permit beards for conviction but not otherwise, opaque caps provided you don’t judge others.
Some require caps on toddlers, some not until confession, some at a older age…
Mennonites have a great deal of diversity for their standards even within the same conference or fellowship.

I have never found anyone ordained with the exception of present company who would object to my conviction and has been nothing but respectful if not agreeing.
I know of a church through an Anabaptist doctor who does have a specific stance against fetal developed/produced vaccines although I don’t know its name.
Personal convictions has been encouraged by Mennonites unless it goes against established church practice or doctrine. To say otherwise is a serious misunderstanding of Mennonite/Anabaptist teachings and to deflect it by saying it’s only outsiders is a disservice to practice if only true blood Mennonites can speak of what “we” believe.

If you have a personal connection, fine. But do not try to present it as the view of your church. And a congregation is absolutely within its rights to have a stand against all sorts of things, as long as it is presented as the view of that particular group.

The source of antivaxism is largely political, originating outside of the Mennonite church, and is recent, except for the old order Amish, who, in the 1979 polio outbreak DID begin to vaccinate when the implications were understood. I was there.

I object to your conviction because it is likely to end up killing people.

[Ken]

My denomination does discourage conspiracy theories and excessive "alternative" medicine. The COVID vaccine marked a change in our attitudes towards vaccines, as many people chose to reject them, and this was no longer fringe or a conspiracy theory. Now, many choose to avoid vaccines for personal reasons, conviction, or even just a preference, and now this is acceptable.

No, it is still fringe and conspiracy theory even if many around you believe it. And if you are talking about childhood vaccines, it is also completely irresponsible.

It is unfortunate now that many brethren and sisters who did take the COVID vaccine are suffering from cancer and other serious health problems.

I rest my case.

[JohnH]

My denomination does discourage conspiracy theories and excessive "alternative" medicine. The COVID vaccine marked a change in our attitudes towards vaccines, as many people chose to reject them, and this was no longer fringe or a conspiracy theory. Now, many choose to avoid vaccines for personal reasons, conviction, or even just a preference, and now this is acceptable.

No, it is still fringe and conspiracy theory even if many around you believe it. And if you are talking about childhood vaccines, it is also completely irresponsible.

It is unfortunate now that many brethren and sisters who did take the COVID vaccine are suffering from cancer and other serious health problems.

I rest my case.

The cancer cases are quite real. You can jump up and down and say “conspiracy theory!”, but it doesn’t cure their cancer. A number of people now sincerely regret getting the untested, “emergency use authorization” vaccine that didn’t work.

[Ken]

My denomination does discourage conspiracy theories and excessive "alternative" medicine. The COVID vaccine marked a change in our attitudes towards vaccines, as many people chose to reject them, and this was no longer fringe or a conspiracy theory. Now, many choose to avoid vaccines for personal reasons, conviction, or even just a preference, and now this is acceptable.

No, it is still fringe and conspiracy theory even if many around you believe it. And if you are talking about childhood vaccines, it is also completely irresponsible.

It is unfortunate now that many brethren and sisters who did take the COVID vaccine are suffering from cancer and other serious health problems.

I rest my case.

The cancer cases are quite real. You can jump up and down and say “conspiracy theory!”, but it doesn’t cure their cancer. A number of people now sincerely regret getting the untested, “emergency use authorization” vaccine that didn’t work.

Conspiracy theory is maybe a loaded phrase. Perhaps it would be more accurate to just call it scientific illiteracy. And a sign that scientific education is falling short in your community.

Two fundamental skills that are wrapped into modern science teaching standards are critical thinking and the ability to critically evaluate scientific information and sources. If people are blaming a vaccine for their cancer that shows a lack of critical thinking skills and an inability to critically evaluate scientific information. As does the assertion that the vaccine didn’t work to protect lives and severe illness.

[Southerner]

No, it is still fringe and conspiracy theory even if many around you believe it. And if you are talking about childhood vaccines, it is also completely irresponsible.



I rest my case.

The cancer cases are quite real. You can jump up and down and say “conspiracy theory!”, but it doesn’t cure their cancer. A number of people now sincerely regret getting the untested, “emergency use authorization” vaccine that didn’t work.

Conspiracy theory is maybe a loaded phrase. Perhaps it would be more accurate to just call it scientific illiteracy. And a sign that scientific education is falling short in your community.

Two fundamental skills that are wrapped into modern science teaching standards are critical thinking and the ability to critically evaluate scientific information and sources. If people are blaming a vaccine for their cancer that shows a lack of critical thinking skills and an inability to critically evaluate scientific information. As does the assertion that the vaccine didn’t work to protect lives and severe illness.

It's called "Turbo Cancer" and is indeed a conspiracy spawned by the anti-vax crowd.