Mennonite Measles in Texas

[Ken]

Again. No one involved in this case has made any religious based arguments of conscience. It is all just routine antivax misinformation based on scientific illiteracy.

I made my argument for why I decline the MMR vaccine. Regarding the family in Texas, first of all, you do not know them nor know what their convictions are. Mennonites tend to be very private when talking to the press and will not generally assert their "rights".

As far as "scientific illiteracy", there are views on both sides. I would not call either of them "illiterate". I have not called you illiterate, but you should not call them illiterate.

As for your question about abortion? I think it is generally wrong but not always. Circumstances matter. I also think that, like vaccinations, it is an issue that doesn’t lend itself well to blanket criminalization. So basically the same exact position that you take with respect to vaccinations.

Thank you for answering the question.

I don’t know any of these people in Texas. But they have chosen to share their views to the media in various public interviews. And they have not communicated any religious objections to vaccines.

As for scientific illiteracy? One example is the nonsense about the MMR vaccine causing autism. That has been long ago debunked and the people still promoting it are doing so for profit.

[JohnH]

I don’t know any of these people in Texas. But they have chosen to share their views to the media in various public interviews. And they have not communicated any religious objections to vaccines.

Once again, none of us know what their religious convictions are and we should not second guess them.

As for scientific illiteracy? One example is the nonsense about the MMR vaccine causing autism. That has been long ago debunked and the people still promoting it are doing so for profit.

Parents would like answers as to why autism has shot up to as bad as 1 in 36 when it used to be much, much rarer. One place they are looking at is all the junk injected in our bodies. It is not a bad place to start. The bigger question - why even take the risk?

[Soloist]

Once again, none of us know what their religious convictions are and we should not second guess them.

Perhaps that’s true, but if I had a religious conviction with a “friendly” interview I would definitely mention it and that the helpful pharmaceutical company was pressured to stop producing the measles vaccine by itself.
As it was, both the mother and father focused on everything else.

[Judas Maccabeus]

Once again, none of us know what their religious convictions are and we should not second guess them.

The theological position of the Mennonite church is well established, in writing, and contained in the various confessions of faith and rules of discipline that are in full public view, if you care to look. The mennonite church has never had a position against vaccination. If you know of one, enlighten me, but my shelf is full, and I have checked them all. Hence, it is not a religious conviction, but one apparently driven by the misinformation that is out there. In other words, it is based on a lie, told by non-mennonites that has penetrated our communities. I have dealt with this before, and what I get is "I've done my own research." The rough translation is I have seen something or heard something, and I do not wish to subject it to facts.

If you have a Mennonite Church document that shows a position against vaccination, I would love to see it. I doubt you can find one.

[Judas Maccabeus]

Parents would like answers as to why autism has shot up to as bad as 1 in 36 when it used to be much, much rarer. One place they are looking at is all the junk injected in our bodies. It is not a bad place to start. The bigger question - why even take the risk?

You are aware that "autism" is a relatively new diagnosis, with constantly shifting criteria? I remember two children on my street that were "mentally retarded." One was institutionalized. There is in my circle of friends a family with a child that is "autistic." His behavior is identical to the above two. I have a friend that has just been told he is autistic in his mid 50s! For all I know, I would be considered autistic, as I cannot spell at all. Autism has only shot up because the diagnosis of autism has shot up.

people seek to blame something for their child not being "perfect." The people who are pushing the "vaccine" theory provide a convenient thing to blame, except the foundational science behind it is fraudulent, and has been found so in an open tribunal. Wakefield was, indeed "struck off."

[Valerie]

Parents would like answers as to why autism has shot up to as bad as 1 in 36 when it used to be much, much rarer. One place they are looking at is all the junk injected in our bodies. It is not a bad place to start. The bigger question - why even take the risk?

You are aware that "autism" is a relatively new diagnosis, with constantly shifting criteria? I remember two children on my street that were "mentally retarded." One was institutionalized. There is in my circle of friends a family with a child that is "autistic." His behavior is identical to the above two. I have a friend that has just been told he is autistic in his mid 50s! For all I know, I would be considered autistic, as I cannot spell at all. Autism has only shot up because the diagnosis of autism has shot up.

people seek to blame something for their child not being "perfect." The people who are pushing the "vaccine" theory provide a convenient thing to blame, except the foundational science behind it is fraudulent, and has been found so in an open tribunal. Wakefield was, indeed "struck off."

I’ve been exposed to a lot of autism and also mental retardants (forget the politically correct term) as my best friend growing up had a sister mentally retarded. So I went to a lot of their events so quite exposed to them. Austrian, as far as the ones I know, it is nothing like mental retardation. There are distinctive “quirks” in autistics & distinctives that are found in autistics. The spectrum makes is broad. My 27 yo niece who’s highly intelligent just announced she’s autistic, to all of us it was like a “that explains a lot” response in thinking. Same with the several I work or have worked with- it’s “unique” to autism- funny quirks unexplainable but not “bad”. I don’t care if it’s been debunked I wouldn’t rule out vaccines, something is causing it- anything injected can have consequences even if for “most” it does not.

[Ken]

Parents would like answers as to why autism has shot up to as bad as 1 in 36 when it used to be much, much rarer. One place they are looking at is all the junk injected in our bodies. It is not a bad place to start. The bigger question - why even take the risk?

You are aware that "autism" is a relatively new diagnosis, with constantly shifting criteria? I remember two children on my street that were "mentally retarded." One was institutionalized. There is in my circle of friends a family with a child that is "autistic." His behavior is identical to the above two. I have a friend that has just been told he is autistic in his mid 50s! For all I know, I would be considered autistic, as I cannot spell at all. Autism has only shot up because the diagnosis of autism has shot up.

people seek to blame something for their child not being "perfect." The people who are pushing the "vaccine" theory provide a convenient thing to blame, except the foundational science behind it is fraudulent, and has been found so in an open tribunal. Wakefield was, indeed "struck off."

I’ve been exposed to a lot of autism and also mental retardants (forget the politically correct term) as my best friend growing up had a sister mentally retarded. So I went to a lot of their events so quite exposed to them. Austrian, as far as the ones I know, it is nothing like mental retardation. There are distinctive “quirks” in autistics & distinctives that are found in autistics. The spectrum makes is broad. My 27 yo niece who’s highly intelligent just announced she’s autistic, to all of us it was like a “that explains a lot” response in thinking. Same with the several I work or have worked with- it’s “unique” to autism- funny quirks unexplainable but not “bad”. I don’t care if it’s been debunked I wouldn’t rule out vaccines, something is causing it- anything injected can have consequences even if for “most” it does not.

There is nothing particularly unique or consequential about getting injections.

Every single thing you eat, every single thing you drink, and every single thing you breathe gets into your bloodstream. Injections are just the most efficient way of getting a specific measured amount of a substance into your bloodstream or tissue. But if you breathe polluted air that goes straight into your lungs and into the capillaries of your bloodstream, which is the same way that every breath of oxygen also gets into your bloodstream

Likewise every time you eat or drink anything it is absorbed by the villi in your small intestine into your bloodstream where it is distributed throughout your body. Same thing when you drink any liquids like water, or any pollutants or contaminants in your food or water.

So I fail to understand why people fixate on a couple of ml of a vaccine getting injected into their tissue or bloodstream when they are consuming, drinking, and breathing an extraordinary array of chemicals and substances every single day that also go straight into their bloodstream and get distributed to their tissues and organs and body cells in the same exact way that vaccines do.

[ohio jones]

For all I know, I would be considered autistic, as I cannot spell at all.

You can spell at all; you just did, correctly. Perhaps you have trouble with other words.

Now Valerie, on the other hand ...

Austrian, as far as the ones I know, it is nothing like mental retardation.

Ich stimme zu, dass Österreicher zu sein nicht dasselbe ist wie geistig zurückgeblieben zu sein.

[Soloist]

I’ve been exposed to a lot of autism and also mental retardants (forget the politically correct term) as my best friend growing up had a sister mentally retarded. So I went to a lot of their events so quite exposed to them. Austrian, as far as the ones I know, it is nothing like mental retardation. There are distinctive “quirks” in autistics & distinctives that are found in autistics. The spectrum makes is broad. My 27 yo niece who’s highly intelligent just announced she’s autistic, to all of us it was like a “that explains a lot” response in thinking. Same with the several I work or have worked with- it’s “unique” to autism- funny quirks unexplainable but not “bad”. I don’t care if it’s been debunked I wouldn’t rule out vaccines, something is causing it- anything injected can have consequences even if for “most” it does not.

Wife: my son was diagnosed as moderate to severe autism (unvaccinated), and one of my friends has a daughter who is severely autistic and nonverbal (probably vaccinated but who knows if that had anything to do with it). My husband has worked with an elderly autistic patient who was raised in an institution until they shut them down and went from group home to group home after that, and we’ve known others or had relatives that would be on the moderate to severe end of the spectrum, and that definitely would look similar to mental retardation. The man who officially described down syndrome/mongolism call back in the 1800s also described developmental retardation which sounded a lot like autism. I remember reading his description elsewhere about how you can’t tell when they’re born like you can with down syndrome, but it shows up as they get older, and start missing milestones, which was very similar to our son.

Here’s a nifty timeline of the history of the diagnosis of autism, etc. https://embrace-autism.com/wp-content/ ... ations.pdf

Sometimes it’s interesting for me when I meet someone who says they or someone else is diagnosed as autistic, and they seem mostly normal to me, although maybe socially awkward or have certain tics/obsessions. I certainly would not doubt they are autistic, but there is such a wide variation of autism, and I think the spectrum has gotten more broad, which is causing higher amounts of diagnosis. ADHD is now on the spectrum, Asperger‘s would’ve not been considered autism at one point and has now been renamed high functioning autism, and although there might be an increase, I do think part of it is just increased diagnosis.

As far as it goes, my child was very obsessed about certain things like letters and numbers and memorized stories and would run around repeating them verbatim, but in other ways, was just an overgrown toddler pound I can have better abstract conversation with my three year old than with him. He seemed like a perfectly normal baby, although he was slow to meet some milestones and had a large head circumference, and it wasn’t till he was close to two that they started talking seriously about autism.

It’s possible, if he had been vaccinated prior to that, I might have blamed the vaccines, although that being said, I’m not saying I know without a doubt that vaccine related autism is impossible. It’s just not a concern of ours when we are deciding which vaccines to do or not do, and we just go based off of fetal cells at this point.

[JohnH]

The theological position of the Mennonite church is well established, in writing, and contained in the various confessions of faith and rules of discipline that are in full public view, if you care to look.

The “Mennonite church” doesn’t have a consistent position on gay marriage or whether members can be police officers. It is nonsense to claim the “Mennonite church” has a position on vaccinations or not.

One longstanding position though in Anabaptism is the importance of individual conscience. Sometimes this distills down to something you might disagree with, like not putting an orange reflective mark on a buggy, putting bright LED lights on a buggy, or wearing an orange vest when hunting. This doesn’t make those religious convictions any less valid.

The mennonite church has never had a position against vaccination. If you know of one, enlighten me, but my shelf is full, and I have checked them all. Hence, it is not a religious conviction, but one apparently driven by the misinformation that is out there. In other words, it is based on a lie, told by non-mennonites that has penetrated our communities. I have dealt with this before, and what I get is "I've done my own research." The rough translation is I have seen something or heard something, and I do not wish to subject it to facts.

There are two Mennonites right here who have a position against vaccination (or other medical treatments) that use stem cells.

If you have a Mennonite Church document that shows a position against vaccination, I would love to see it. I doubt you can find one.

This isn’t the Catholic Church. There is no central authority that dispenses documents with official dogma.

Personally, I have a hard time respecting any Mennonite group that does things like watch DVDs, TV, embrace the radio etc but for the sake of unity I try to take people in worldly Mennonite groups seriously. I would ask that you show the rest of us the same respect.