Southerner wrote: ↑Fri Mar 21, 2025 12:23 pm
The dad in the interview said contracting measles helps protect you from cancer, etc...all this after he lost his daughter.
His daughter will never get cancer, so he might have a point.
Southerner's post strikes me as Southerner having some kind of belief that since his daughter died, he would now be pro-vaccine. This is a grave misunderstanding both of how people who eschew vaccines, and how conservative Mennonites, think.
We accept risks exist, and that some people will die from diseases. The fact someone dies does not mean we will change our entire worldview. Instead, we accept it.
To give an analogy, a wonderful mother and precious young baby died when a truck driver decided not to slow down and crushed their vehicle. We have not abandoned driving vehicles and trucks.
Southerner wrote: ↑Fri Mar 21, 2025 12:23 pm
The dad in the interview said contracting measles helps protect you from cancer, etc...all this after he lost his daughter.
His daughter will never get cancer, so he might have a point.
Southerner's post strikes me as Southerner having some kind of belief that since his daughter died, he would now be pro-vaccine. This is a grave misunderstanding both of how people who eschew vaccines, and how conservative Mennonites, think.
We accept risks exist, and that some people will die from diseases. The fact someone dies does not mean we will change our entire worldview. Instead, we accept it.
To give an analogy, a wonderful mother and precious young baby died when a truck driver decided not to slow down and crushed their vehicle. We have not abandoned driving vehicles and trucks.
That is an absurd analogy.
A truck driver didn't kill this 6 year old girl. Her parents did by neglecting to get her vaccinated. And her community did by inviting in a measles outbreak due to their low community vaccination rate.
On the other hand, will the death of their child change their behavior? I dunno. It sounds like probably not.
1 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
JohnH wrote: ↑Fri Mar 21, 2025 3:28 pm
To give an analogy, a wonderful mother and precious young baby died when a truck driver decided not to slow down and crushed their vehicle. We have not abandoned driving vehicles and trucks.
Unfortunately, that unwillingness to change behavior also sometimes extends to the point where even after such an unfortunate incident, the truck driver continues to refuse to slow down. In that case, can future crashes really be called accidents, or are they simply the predictable results of dangerous behavior.
ohio jones wrote: ↑Fri Mar 21, 2025 1:26 pm
His daughter will never get cancer, so he might have a point.
Southerner's post strikes me as Southerner having some kind of belief that since his daughter died, he would now be pro-vaccine. This is a grave misunderstanding both of how people who eschew vaccines, and how conservative Mennonites, think.
We accept risks exist, and that some people will die from diseases. The fact someone dies does not mean we will change our entire worldview. Instead, we accept it.
To give an analogy, a wonderful mother and precious young baby died when a truck driver decided not to slow down and crushed their vehicle. We have not abandoned driving vehicles and trucks.
That is an absurd analogy.
A truck driver didn't kill this 6 year old girl. Her parents did by neglecting to get her vaccinated. And her community did by inviting in a measles outbreak due to their low community vaccination rate.
On the other hand, will the death of their child change their behavior? I dunno. It sounds like probably not.
I don't think it's absurd. It seems that careless, dangerous driving has some similarity to the risk associated with not vaccinating. And some people will not abandon their careless driving even after it causes a crash.
Southerner wrote: ↑Fri Mar 21, 2025 12:23 pm
The dad in the interview said contracting measles helps protect you from cancer, etc...all this after he lost his daughter.
His daughter will never get cancer, so he might have a point.
Southerner's post strikes me as Southerner having some kind of belief that since his daughter died, he would now be pro-vaccine. This is a grave misunderstanding both of how people who eschew vaccines, and how conservative Mennonites, think.
We accept risks exist, and that some people will die from diseases. The fact someone dies does not mean we will change our entire worldview. Instead, we accept it.
To give an analogy, a wonderful mother and precious young baby died when a truck driver decided not to slow down and crushed their vehicle. We have not abandoned driving vehicles and trucks.
As a conservative Mennonite, some of us are pro vaccine. And no need to lecture me on "world views". I am well aware of my fellow Mennonite's beliefs.
Regarding your analogy, i agree we accept risk but we also buckle up while driving.
Southerner's post strikes me as Southerner having some kind of belief that since his daughter died, he would now be pro-vaccine. This is a grave misunderstanding both of how people who eschew vaccines, and how conservative Mennonites, think.
We accept risks exist, and that some people will die from diseases. The fact someone dies does not mean we will change our entire worldview. Instead, we accept it.
To give an analogy, a wonderful mother and precious young baby died when a truck driver decided not to slow down and crushed their vehicle. We have not abandoned driving vehicles and trucks.
That is an absurd analogy.
A truck driver didn't kill this 6 year old girl. Her parents did by neglecting to get her vaccinated. And her community did by inviting in a measles outbreak due to their low community vaccination rate.
On the other hand, will the death of their child change their behavior? I dunno. It sounds like probably not.
I don't think it's absurd. It seems that careless, dangerous driving has some similarity to the risk associated with not vaccinating. And some people will not abandon their careless driving even after it causes a crash.
If it was the father who was reckless driving and killed his own daughter that way then you would have a point. JohnH's analogy was some random reckless truck driver running down a mother and child which is different. There is nothing a parent can do to prevent that from happening other than avoiding using the roads I guess. What can a father do to learn and change his ways if his wife and daughter are run down by a reckless truck driver?
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
ohio jones wrote: ↑Fri Mar 21, 2025 1:26 pm
His daughter will never get cancer, so he might have a point.
Southerner's post strikes me as Southerner having some kind of belief that since his daughter died, he would now be pro-vaccine. This is a grave misunderstanding both of how people who eschew vaccines, and how conservative Mennonites, think.
We accept risks exist, and that some people will die from diseases. The fact someone dies does not mean we will change our entire worldview. Instead, we accept it.
To give an analogy, a wonderful mother and precious young baby died when a truck driver decided not to slow down and crushed their vehicle. We have not abandoned driving vehicles and trucks.
As a conservative Mennonite, some of us are pro vaccine. And no need to lecture me on "world views". I am well aware of my fellow Mennonite's beliefs.
Regarding your analogy, i agree we accept risk but we also buckle up while driving.
And don’t forget that safety feature like air bags and seat belts are mandated by law and not voluntary.
0 x
"Woe to those who make unjust laws, to those who issue oppressive decrees, to deprive the poor of their rights and withhold justice from the oppressed of my people, making widows their prey and robbing the fatherless."
A truck driver didn't kill this 6 year old girl. Her parents did by neglecting to get her vaccinated. And her community did by inviting in a measles outbreak due to their low community vaccination rate.
On the other hand, will the death of their child change their behavior? I dunno. It sounds like probably not.
I don't think it's absurd. It seems that careless, dangerous driving has some similarity to the risk associated with not vaccinating. And some people will not abandon their careless driving even after it causes a crash.
If it was the father who was reckless driving and killed his own daughter that way then you would have a point. JohnH's analogy was some random reckless truck driver running down a mother and child which is different. There is nothing a parent can do to prevent that from happening other than avoiding using the roads I guess. What can a father do to learn and change his ways if his wife and daughter are run down by a reckless truck driver?
Lots of things.
#1. Don’t drive on roads with heavy truck traffic.
#2. Don’t drive at all. Use flights or trains instead if travel is necessary.
#3. Buy an extremely safe car with all kinds of safety features.
I wouldn’t dictate to parents they have to do those things, although a lot of plain people choose not to drive.
ken_sylvania wrote: ↑Fri Mar 21, 2025 4:02 pm
I don't think it's absurd. It seems that careless, dangerous driving has some similarity to the risk associated with not vaccinating. And some people will not abandon their careless driving even after it causes a crash.
If it was the father who was reckless driving and killed his own daughter that way then you would have a point. JohnH's analogy was some random reckless truck driver running down a mother and child which is different. There is nothing a parent can do to prevent that from happening other than avoiding using the roads I guess. What can a father do to learn and change his ways if his wife and daughter are run down by a reckless truck driver?
Lots of things.
#1. Don’t drive on roads with heavy truck traffic.
#2. Don’t drive at all. Use flights or trains instead if travel is necessary.
#3. Buy an extremely safe car with all kinds of safety features.
I wouldn’t dictate to parents they have to do those things, although a lot of plain people choose not to drive.
It is at the intersection of two major US highways with lots of truck traffic. The nearest Amtrak stations are in El Paso and Dallas. The nearest commercial airport is probably Lubbock. What kind of car with safety features do you recommend for this father to keep his family safe from an 18 wheeler bearing down at high speed? Which in that part of Texas will probably be a heavy 18 wheeler hauling crude oil.
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Ken wrote: ↑Fri Mar 21, 2025 5:57 pm
This is Seminole in Gaines County in west Texas where this measles outbreak happened and this child died: https://maps.app.goo.gl/WMg9ycnkevkdzBCv5
It is at the intersection of two major US highways with lots of truck traffic. The nearest Amtrak stations are in El Paso and Dallas. The nearest commercial airport is probably Lubbock. What kind of car with safety features do you recommend for this father to keep his family safe from an 18 wheeler bearing down at high speed? Which in that part of Texas will probably be a heavy 18 wheeler hauling crude oil.
I'm not a transportation safety specialist. I do know there are things parents can do (some quite easy, others would be expensive or difficult) to make such risks safer.
Swartzentruber Amish don't use drivers and don't have to deal with car accidents nearly as much, since they also only commute via horse and buggy (and thus don't go as far). If we REALLY cared about vehicle accidents the rest of us would adopt similar lifestyles. But most people don't. Given that car accidents are a far graver threat to children than measles, I will listen to people's advice about taking vaccines once I see them take car accidents for children seriously.
