Elon musk and his sons

[Franklin]

https://mikejohnson.house.gov/7-core-pr ... servatism/

Franklin that is probably the closest description of political conservatism which you see as a “label” but that is why the two major parties- those core principles are not “spiritual” conservatism.

These are the lies conservatives tell. Trump stands for none of these things. Liberals have a different set of lies. But the truth is that both groups are only really interested in power.

[Valerie]

https://mikejohnson.house.gov/7-core-pr ... servatism/

Franklin that is probably the closest description of political conservatism which you see as a “label” but that is why the two major parties- those core principles are not “spiritual” conservatism.

These are the lies conservatives tell. Trump stands for none of these things. Liberals have a different set of lies. But the truth is that both groups are only really interested in power.

I’m sorry for your perspective- bottom line to voters is which party best represents what they believe to be best for the country, for the people of the country- what’s best for them. Obviously we would only have one party if we all agreed on what we think government should be doing.

Trump used to be a Democrat. If you read books written by others about the man, and what he’s done “for others” before getting into the political arena, you’d understand “the man” better. I believe (as do many others) that he really cares about what America had become and was hoping to make a difference, enough to sacrifice what could be the best of his retirement years for “himself” he believes he can help turn some things around. He was strongly encouraged by others to run long ago. He was not a politician at the time, just valued for his abilities. However his left wing former “friends” forsook him for his pro-life position, for not being a globalist, nor convinced of climate change to the extent of its claims, & his desire for conservative judges instead of activists that he disagreed with their “values”- there are many reasons he began to identify eventually with the Republican Party and from what Republicans and the independents that voted for him can see, he is trying to accomplish what he said he would do.

Elon is Elon- he was hired for a specific job which who would want that job?? I am thankful Elon was willing to take it on.

[temporal1]

https://mikejohnson.house.gov/7-core-pr ... servatism/
Franklin that is probably the closest description of political conservatism which you see as a “label” but that is why the two major parties- those core principles are not “spiritual” conservatism.

These are the lies conservatives tell. Trump stands for none of these things. Liberals have a different set of lies. But the truth is that both groups are only really interested in power.

i believe there are 3 groups now, right and left, both with a spectrum, also, career politicians/uniparty/legacy politicians, which are politicians from both camps, by label, but are in it for themselves, NOT to represent their voters. The latter has developed over decades, mostly by no term limits. The system is gamed.

Being an elected rep was not supposed to be a lucrative career!
It was supposed to be public service.

[Franklin]

Trump used to be a Democrat. If you read books written by others about the man, and what he’s done “for others” before getting into the political arena, you’d understand “the man” better. I believe (as do many others) that he really cares about what America had become and was hoping to make a difference, enough to sacrifice what could be the best of his retirement years for “himself” he believes he can help turn some things around. He was strongly encouraged by others to run long ago. He was not a politician at the time, just valued for his abilities. However his left wing former “friends” forsook him for his pro-life position, for not being a globalist, nor convinced of climate change to the extent of its claims, & his desire for conservative judges instead of activists that he disagreed with their “values”- there are many reasons he began to identify eventually with the Republican Party and from what Republicans and the independents that voted for him can see, he is trying to accomplish what he said he would do.

A bit off-topic, but this video I saw today well describes Trump and modern conservatives:

[Franklin]

i believe there are 3 groups now, right and left, both with a spectrum, also, career politicians/uniparty/legacy politicians, which are politicians from both camps, by label, but are in it for themselves, NOT to represent their voters. The latter has developed over decades, mostly by no term limits. The system is gamed.

Being an elected rep was not supposed to be a lucrative career!
It was supposed to be public service.

I don't blame the politicians, I blame the electorate. After all, the electorate chooses the politicians and they have only managed to elect one good one at the federal level (Thomas Massie). This is because the voters are shallow and superficial (modern American traits), so they judge politicians based on the lies they tell, not based on their record or character. So the electorate gets what it deserves.

[temporal1]

i believe there are 3 groups now, right and left, both with a spectrum, also, career politicians/uniparty/legacy politicians, which are politicians from both camps, by label, but are in it for themselves, NOT to represent their voters. The latter has developed over decades, mostly by no term limits. The system is gamed.

Being an elected rep was not supposed to be a lucrative career!
It was supposed to be public service.

I don't blame the politicians, I blame the electorate.
After all, the electorate chooses the politicians and they have only managed to elect one good one at the federal level (Thomas Massie). This is because the voters are shallow and superficial (modern American traits), so they judge politicians based on the lies they tell, not based on their record or character.

So the electorate gets what it deserves.

i agree. i struggle with term limits. they might eliminate good reps, and, if by age, clearly, people age very differently!
the electorate is responsible.

which goes to the question of insufficient, unbalanced public education. too much is not taught! balance is sorely needed.

[GaryK]

Robert, I’m not saying people can’t have different perspectives—I’m saying that when moral standards shift depending on who is being judged, that’s worth discussing.

If someone condemns a behavior in one case but excuses it in another, isn’t it fair to ask why? That’s not about “correcting” people—it’s about examining how people justify their moral views.

I’m not expecting everyone to agree, but I think it’s fair to ask: Would Musk get the same treatment if he were a liberal? If the answer is no, then isn’t that worth acknowledging?

The reality is we all rationalize some. We have to. No other person will live up to our expectations. Well, few will. Just because I really like that Musk is working with DOGE and finding all kinds of waste and corruption does not mean I give him a pass on other things. It just means I can accept him as the broken person we all are.

I also do not see a moral shift where he is given more tolerance in those areas. If you do, that is fine, but I just am not seeing it. You are welcome to point it out if I do it. You have my permission. If I am doing it and am unaware, seeing it will at least allow me to consider it and evaluate if I should change some of my perspectives. Just do it in a healthy way, not a "I caught you!" way.

I agree that we all rationalize at times—that’s human nature. I frequently wrestle with my own biases, blind spots and hypocrisies. But I don’t think that means we should just accept it without questioning when it happens, especially when it affects how we apply moral principles.

You say you don’t see Musk being given more tolerance than others—I respect that, but I do see it. I’m not coming at this with a “gotcha!” mindset, but I do think it’s worth asking questions about. I think this is something worth reflecting on.

Can you think of a public figure on the left who has had multiple children with multiple women and was given the same grace Musk has been given in this conversation? If there is one, I’d be interested to hear about it. If not, doesn’t that suggest there might be a different standard at play?

I think your last questions are the ones that should be wrestled with. I can't think of any public figures on the left who have had a thread on MN dedicated to their having had multiple children with multiple women. Perhaps we should start one but I'm guessing if one was started, people would be extra careful not to come across as hypocritical.

Having said that, I'm wondering why we, as followers of Jesus, should be looking to politicians and/or public figures to provide us with examples of what is/is not moral or ethical. I have seen reports in the recent past of two politicians, one Republican and one Democrat, who are separated from their wives but not yet divorced, having what appears to be affairs with other women. This kind of immorality is not new in politics or in the world in general.

Politics, by nature, is hypocritical. Therefore, offering opinions about political matters and politicians will be viewed by others as hypocritical. I think what you are observing about the responses you are seeing on MN is generally true. I've observed it on both sides.

[Grace]

I appreciate that you personally disapprove of Musk’s morality, but that wasn’t my point. My point is that when it comes to Musk, the tone and framing of the discussion here is very different than when other people engage in the same behavior. Musk’s actions don’t spark the same moral outrage, and when they’re discussed, the conversation quickly shifts to deflections about his wealth, intelligence, or achievements. Do you disagree that this pattern exists?

Patterns works both ways. For four years when it came to the Biden family, when their vile, disgusting, immoral behavior and crimes were brought up there was plenty of deflection and defending them etc. There was no moral outrage from many here. I was repeatedly attacked for pointing out some of the disgusting shenanigans of this crime family who lied an unbelievable number of times. There even was an attack thread started centered around me and comments I made about Biden. No one seemed bothered that Biden exhibited borderline pedophile behavior, with all his sniffing and inappropriate touching of little girls and young women. In my opinion Biden's behavior was no less reprehensible than Elon Musks. All the fuss about Musk's children, yet no one was bothered when a beautiful little girl was not even acknowledged by her grandparents.

LOL..as my young adult children say to me when I complain more than they want to hear. "Do you want cheese with your whine?"

If you felt that Biden was unfairly defended, wouldn’t the best response be to hold everyone—including Musk—to the same standard? If selective outrage was a problem then, why is it not a problem now?

I have seen many people here, including myself, denounce Musk's immoral behavior. I have said numerous times his behavior is reprehensible. I am sorry that denouncing Musk's immoral behavior isn't enough and to the level of outrage you would like.

[JohnH]

Can you think of a public figure on the left who has had multiple children with multiple women and was given the same grace Musk has been given in this conversation? If there is one, I’d be interested to hear about it. If not, doesn’t that suggest there might be a different standard at play?

Elon Musk used to be on the left. I don’t recall much criticism of him (including from you). Right wing people were mostly just critical because at the time they didn’t really like EVs nor government subsidies for EVs.

As far as a similar figure, I can think of Cornel West… I have not seen criticism of his personal morality at all on MN.

[JimFoxvog]

This expresses my understanding of Musk well:

He Is Not Just a “Nazi”: Why It Matters
It’s not name-calling. It’s not theoretical.
Jim Stewartson
Mar 16, 2025

I was asked in my weekly Zoom meeting to explain why it matters that Elon Musk is a “Nazi.” It was pointed out, correctly, that many people glaze over at the word — in much the same way that people glazed over at the word “Russia” for years. Many people are still left with the remnants of a long hoax portraying Musk as a “genius” and a “visionary” when he’s never invented anything but his own mythology. So, here’s my answer, as concisely as I can.

Elon Musk is not just a “Nazi.”

Elon Musk’s psychology is comparable to neo-Nazi mass murderers Anders Breivik, Brenton Tarrant, Patrick Crusius and Dylann Roof. He is a mentally ill, emotionally broken teenage boy committing mass violence in order to make the world safe for white people.

He won’t stop until millions are dead.

This isn’t name-calling, and it’s not theoretical. What he has already done with DOGE will kill countless people in countries we were helping with life-saving food and medicine. He didn’t do it to save money, he did it because he hates Black and brown people and he wants them to die, as fast as possible.

Elon Musk wants to destroy the social safety net in America so he can disempower and identify the ethnic groups he wants to imprison, enslave, and ultimately eliminate. He wants to incentivize white births because he’s terrified of being replaced himself, a condition he was born into as a son of apartheid South Africa. He’s fine with dismantling the health care system because the only people who will die from measles, in his mind, deserve it. It’s not just being a memelord, and it’s not just greed, it’s enacting national eugenics as policy.

Elon Musk was taught by his father that he is a special little boy born for greatness — destined to live out the dreams of great Nazi rocket scientists. And then his father abused and abandoned him, and married his half-sister. When Elon was required to go into the military, Errol Musk told his son to leave South Africa because he didn’t think Black people could run the government and was convinced everything would collapse. So, Elon went to Canada and quickly schemed his way into America with his father’s money.
...

Read the rest of the article here: https://www.mind-war.com/p/he-is-not-ju ... it-matters