Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[Ken]

It is possible and would have been possible to supply Ukraine with more air defenses, without declaring a no-fly zone, and without installing an iron dome. Had the West done this, it would have continued to use up more Russian resources, protected some civilians in Ukraine (not all), and not invested money in bullets to kill the enemy. God didn't put me in charge of some matters, but I am just sayin...

Have you spoken to military members or veterans? Have you asked them about these sort of things? I don’t think you really understand how air warfare works or anti aircraft weapons.

Both the US and EU have been supplying Ukraine with a lot of air defenses. And Ukraine has its own home-grown defense industry. But Ukraine is a very large country with a LOT of territory to defend. And Russia has a lot of resources and uses techniques to overwhelm the air defenses that do exist. Russia is not Hezbollah or Hamas or even Iran. They have extremely sophisticated weaponry and a lot of it.

[Soloist]

I'm pretty sure I don't either.

But my current understanding is that this might be feasible for small areas like power plants and cities, not for Ukraine as a whole. And that strategic intelligence to identify launches when they happen is crucial to make this work. Is that roughly correct?

First you need to identify what you are fighting. Planes you launch expensive missiles to take down.
The US primarily has used missiles for drones as well until more recently. Very inefficient and very expensive cost.
The Stryker vehicle for example equipped as an anti-aircraft platform can carry both missiles and a 50 Cal.
They do not have auto targeting and have to rely on the human to do the targeting. For larger targets that works perfectly fine.
If however, you’re targeting a swarm of fast moving drones that happen to be maybe a meter long tops or smaller… those missiles are going to be very ineffective to stop a swarm. You might hit a few, but what about the rest? Okay so the 50 cal is the next approach. Again, you’re relying on human targeting… are they flying high with an angle that makes hitting them accurately difficult? Are they flying low where you have to worry about what might be behind your target?
And then you have to consider what is your actual effective combat range with the 50 Cal.

When Israel was attacked, not that long back, these things were literally flying for hours, giving plenty of time to intercept and down them. Coincidentally, some of them made it through.
Israel has access to some of the best anti-aircraft capability there is. So when I say it’s not easy… i’m not just speaking ignorantly here. Israel probably has the most experience of being shot at drones and missiles prior to Ukraine. With all that experience and skill, stuff still gets through.
There is no such thing as an impenetrable target.
The other aspect that I didn’t go into yet, maintenance… resupply… and training.
As Ken mentioned… it’s actually pretty easy to overwhelm air defense with drones.
That’s partly why I’m saying we’re going to be seeing flack batteries at some point.

[JohnH]

There isn't any working air defense (unless the U.S. has some classified thing we don't know about) against a hypersonic missile.

In any case, the U.S. taking "ownership" of power plants - which means getting and keeping them online and running, and the soft threat to Russia that these are our property and you can't destroy them - means Ukraine can continue to shore up its own industry. Having a strong, domestic industry is the most important part of being able to arm one's self against a hostile enemy. As opposed to having to go around the world, begging for handouts and arms, which is what Ukraine has been busy doing so far.

Power is particularly important with Ukraine since they (obviously) are not going to resume buying Russian gas, and they have already shut off transit to places like Moldova.

[Ernie]

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c62zm4eqvp7o

Witkoff said in the Tucker Carlson interview: "Why would they want to absorb Ukraine? For what purpose? They don't need to absorb Ukraine… They have reclaimed these five regions. They have Crimea and they have gotten what they want. So why do they need more?"

Because Russia initially tried getting much, much more and because Russia does not recognize Ukraine's existence. That's why.

[Ernie]

Again I ask, "Whoever would have guessed three years ago whenever Putin invaded Ukraine, that the US would become one of Putin's strongest defenders."

[JohnH]

Again I ask, "Whoever would have guessed three years ago whenever Putin invaded Ukraine, that the US would become one of Putin's strongest defenders."

I haven't seen the U.S. defending Putin's actions anywhere. I do see the U.S. engaging in diplomacy, which is generally a good idea with a powerful opponent you cannot just completely vanquish.

[Robert]

[temporal1]

Again I ask, "Whoever would have guessed three years ago whenever Putin invaded Ukraine, that the US would become one of Putin's strongest defenders."

I haven't seen the U.S. defending Putin's actions anywhere. I do see the U.S. engaging in diplomacy, which is generally a good idea with a powerful opponent you cannot just completely vanquish.

“i’m pretty sure” .. if there wasn’t so much internal strife (high level TDS) in the U.S., things would be going much better with putin right now. When (TDS warmongers) set Z up to go in and ambush Trump+Vance recently, putin really dug in, when (i’m guessing) Trump had it pretty well set up to negotiate. To find resolution.

Thankfully for the world’s sake, Trump is big enough, and experienced enough, to let it go (for now anyway) -
while he continues to work away on it. THE MORE IN PRIVATE THE BETTER. The high level TDS warmongers have proven they can’t be trusted on any level, even wrt WWIII. God have mercy on their spineless self-serving souls.

Bringing peace to the Congo would be a very good thing.

^^CONGO: This couldn’t be happening at a more opportune time. Let Z take it all in. Seriously.
The U.S. has options for appreciative partners. Commerce or hot war???

^^That’s how it looks to me, anyway.

Here’s what IRL Ukrainians are left with: (instagram, i hope it opens ok)
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DGxQ4X0O2d5/

[Ernie]

We've suspected this before, but Russia might not want its economy to stagnate if it stops fighting.

And... many Russian leaders have a history of using Russian citizens as cannon fodder as well as slaves. Many don't really care about the individuals and families involved.

https://www.wsj.com/world/russia/russia ... _permalink

[JohnH]

And... many Russian leaders have a history of using Russian citizens as cannon fodder as well as slaves. Many don't really care about the individuals and families involved.

As does every other empire that decides to engage in war. Mercenaries, citizens, prisoners. Warfare is not known for concern about the individuals and families involved.