Meanwhile, in Canada

[Grace]

Kind of like the current insane government over-reaction here in the US to the student Gaza protests on various campuses....right?

Not really the same thing, and Canada did indeed revoke visas of some Americans that got caught up in the protests.

What overreaction are you referring to?

Deporting permanent residents who broke no laws.
Illegally stripping billions of dollars in various research grants from colleges and universities around the country
etc.

So, for example, Trump's response to student protests at Columbia was to rescind grants for pediatric cancer research at the Columbia research hospital. That is the very definition of mindless vengeful over-reaction.

Trump’s response to the antisemitic, Pro-Hamas protests by students and faculty at Columbia University was penalizing the university with pulling federal funding. There is no proof that I know of, that pediatric cancer studies were discontinued.

[JohnH]

I have been very wary of political support for Israel, Zionism and so forth.

I am now even more wary of those who seem to openly support Hamas and have been caught doing so. A doctor was caught flying to Lebanon to attend a Hezbollah leader’s funeral. Her visa has been suspended. I do not see this as government overreach.

Hamas’s attack is the worse thing that could have happened for those who want a legitimate two state solution and Gaza to have more freedom. I just cannot see the Israelis as the “bad guys” here even if I wish they would not resort to some of the military actions they have. And in any case they are a lot stronger than Hamas.

It is in our government’s purview to say, “We don’t want people who either support Hamas or have strong anti-Israeli stances to be granted visas to enter or stay in the country.” I have travelled to other countries that have similar restrictions. In America those of us who are citizens have certain freedoms.

If I went to Canada and started campaigning for them to become the 51st state etc I would not be surprised if the Mounties showed me the door.

[Grace]

Not really the same thing, and Canada did indeed revoke visas of some Americans that got caught up in the protests.

What overreaction are you referring to?

Deporting permanent residents who broke no laws.
Illegally stripping billions of dollars in various research grants from colleges and universities around the country
etc.

So, for example, Trump's response to student protests at Columbia was to rescind grants for pediatric cancer research at the Columbia research hospital. That is the very definition of mindless vengeful over-reaction.

I think locking down private bank accounts over participation in a trucker protest is a whole nother level of authoritarianism.

Even worse was pulling medical licenses from well-respected doctors who had been in practice for many years, because they suggested the use of ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine for Covid.

And then there was the fraudulent information pushed on the people in Canada. When the leaders in the Canadian medical and research community
authorized a clearly fraudulent study, to use fake science to justify discrimination, sow hatred, and infringe on the rights of the unvaccinated public.
https://www.abebooks.com/products/isbn/ ... r_1_rvi_v2

[Ken]

Whatever has been forgotten about its initial reasons, has been eclipsed with the enduring memory of the insane government overreach that followed, specifically the locking down of the participants bank accounts.

Kind of like the current insane government over-reaction here in the US to the student Gaza protests on various campuses....right?

I think we need to call the student Gaza protests for what they truly were, Pro Hamas and extremely antisemitic. I know some like to glibly gloss over that fact, which is dishonest and also disinformation. After the October 2023 Hamas attack on Isreal, antisemitism increased with both the students and faculty of some universities. During the anti-Israel/Anti-Jew protests students called for “Intifada” and urged Hamas fighters to kill Israeli soldiers. “Intifada” is a movement encouraging violence against Israelis, and all Jewish people.

Gaza/pro Hamas student protestors chanted "From the water to the war (a reference to the Jordan river and the Mediterranean), Palestine is Arab" which is considered a call for the cleansing (Annihilation) of the region from Jews and the denial of Jewish rights in their own homeland.

Sorry off topic, but sugar-coating antisemitism bothers me.

Generally they were not. Not the majority of protests and not the majority of students. Unless you torture the word anti-semitism beyond any reasonable definition. In fact, many Jewish students were involved in Gaza protests. Although like student protests since literally the dawn of time, some did spiral out of control as students are wont to do since they are young and stupid. When I was in college it was student protests favoring divestment in South Africa. Or protesting US military intervention and support for military dictators in Central America. Some of those got destructive and out-of-control too. Schools dealt with it, sometimes with local police as necessary. President Reagan didn't get involved.

But even if we agree that there was anti-semitism at some protests. Can you tell us whether or not it is illegal in this country to express anti-semitic ideas? What law prohibits anti-semitic or racist expressions? Are swastikas illegal? What about confederate flags? What about Nazi salutes? Those are all expressions of racism and anti-semitism. What federal law prohibits expression of racist or anti-semitic ideas in public?

[JohnH]

But even if we agree that there was anti-semitism at some protests. Can you tell us whether or not it is illegal in this country to express anti-semitic ideas? What law prohibits anti-semitic or racist expressions? Are swastikas illegal? What about confederate flags? What about Nazi salutes? Those are all expressions of racism and anti-semitism. What federal law prohibits expression of racist or anti-semitic ideas in public?

One of the most disgusting aspects of these "protests" have been protesters who go and scratch swastikas into Tesla vehicles. As if this is some kind of protest against Trump/Elon Musk or against Zionism.

[Ken]

But even if we agree that there was anti-semitism at some protests. Can you tell us whether or not it is illegal in this country to express anti-semitic ideas? What law prohibits anti-semitic or racist expressions? Are swastikas illegal? What about confederate flags? What about Nazi salutes? Those are all expressions of racism and anti-semitism. What federal law prohibits expression of racist or anti-semitic ideas in public?

One of the most disgusting aspects of these "protests" have been protesters who go and scratch swastikas into Tesla vehicles. As if this is some kind of protest against Trump/Elon Musk or against Zionism.

Yes, vandalism and destruction of property is illegal and always has been. Also dumb because Teslas have cameras 365 that record everything if the car has "sentry mode" engaged. So you are liable to get caught.

But I'm not sure what that has to do with Canada or Gaza.

[Grace]

Kind of like the current insane government over-reaction here in the US to the student Gaza protests on various campuses....right?

I think we need to call the student Gaza protests for what they truly were, Pro Hamas and extremely antisemitic. I know some like to glibly gloss over that fact, which is dishonest and also disinformation. After the October 2023 Hamas attack on Isreal, antisemitism increased with both the students and faculty of some universities. During the anti-Israel/Anti-Jew protests students called for “Intifada” and urged Hamas fighters to kill Israeli soldiers. “Intifada” is a movement encouraging violence against Israelis, and all Jewish people.

Gaza/pro Hamas student protestors chanted "From the water to the war (a reference to the Jordan river and the Mediterranean), Palestine is Arab" which is considered a call for the cleansing (Annihilation) of the region from Jews and the denial of Jewish rights in their own homeland.

Sorry off topic, but sugar-coating antisemitism bothers me.

Generally they were not. Not the majority of protests and not the majority of students. Unless you torture the word anti-semitism beyond any reasonable definition. In fact, many Jewish students were involved in Gaza protests. Although like student protests since literally the dawn of time, some did spiral out of control as students are wont to do since they are young and stupid. When I was in college it was student protests favoring divestment in South Africa. Or protesting US military intervention and support for military dictators in Central America. Some of those got destructive and out-of-control too. Schools dealt with it, sometimes with local police as necessary. President Reagan didn't get involved.

But even if we agree that there was anti-semitism at some protests. Can you tell us whether or not it is illegal in this country to express anti-semitic ideas? What law prohibits anti-semitic or racist expressions? Are swastikas illegal? What about confederate flags? What about Nazi salutes? Those are all expressions of racism and anti-semitism. What federal law prohibits expression of racist or anti-semitic ideas in public?

The First Amendment allows for free speech no matter how awful that speech is. However, that has nothing to do with the issue. The question is, should organizations/schools that promote and allow hate speech, Annihilation speech, antisemite speech, etc be funded in the millions by taxpayers?

At this point Columbia University is the only University that the Trump’s administration has cut federal funding.

[Ken]

I think we need to call the student Gaza protests for what they truly were, Pro Hamas and extremely antisemitic. I know some like to glibly gloss over that fact, which is dishonest and also disinformation. After the October 2023 Hamas attack on Isreal, antisemitism increased with both the students and faculty of some universities. During the anti-Israel/Anti-Jew protests students called for “Intifada” and urged Hamas fighters to kill Israeli soldiers. “Intifada” is a movement encouraging violence against Israelis, and all Jewish people.

Gaza/pro Hamas student protestors chanted "From the water to the war (a reference to the Jordan river and the Mediterranean), Palestine is Arab" which is considered a call for the cleansing (Annihilation) of the region from Jews and the denial of Jewish rights in their own homeland.

Sorry off topic, but sugar-coating antisemitism bothers me.

Generally they were not. Not the majority of protests and not the majority of students. Unless you torture the word anti-semitism beyond any reasonable definition. In fact, many Jewish students were involved in Gaza protests. Although like student protests since literally the dawn of time, some did spiral out of control as students are wont to do since they are young and stupid. When I was in college it was student protests favoring divestment in South Africa. Or protesting US military intervention and support for military dictators in Central America. Some of those got destructive and out-of-control too. Schools dealt with it, sometimes with local police as necessary. President Reagan didn't get involved.

But even if we agree that there was anti-semitism at some protests. Can you tell us whether or not it is illegal in this country to express anti-semitic ideas? What law prohibits anti-semitic or racist expressions? Are swastikas illegal? What about confederate flags? What about Nazi salutes? Those are all expressions of racism and anti-semitism. What federal law prohibits expression of racist or anti-semitic ideas in public?

The First Amendment allows for free speech no matter how awful that speech is. However, that has nothing to do with the issue. The question is, should organizations/schools that promote and allow hate speech, Annihilation speech, antisemite speech, etc be funded in the millions by taxpayers?

At this point Columbia University is the only University that the Trump’s administration has cut federal funding.

So, lets follow your logic through.

Should the US government enter into multi-billion dollar contracts with companies whose leaders engage in racist and antisemitic behavior and whose platforms allow and promote vile antisemitism and hate speech and a toxic collection of racists and antisemites?

[JohnH]

Is the US government paying for this platform with alleged hate speech on it?

[Ken]

Is the US government paying for this platform with alleged hate speech on it?

As you well know. money is fungible.

The US government is paying billions to companies under the same ownership. And in this case the connections are far more obvious than say the connection between cancer research at a university hospital and what some dingbat protesters did at a public protest somewhere else.

For example, I also don't remember any university presidents re-tweeting and promoting antisemitic and racist tropes through their official university accounts. Unlike what goes on with Musk. Who has more power and responsibility here? The owner and CEO of these companies? Or some dingbat undergrad protestors who are not actually speaking for the university?