Ernie wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2025 5:04 pm
Recently I heard a Beachy Amish-Mennonite, who is also a school teacher, talking to another CA Mennonite teacher about how they are helping high school students invest in stocks. As I understood it, they want to help high schoolers learn some good principles for investing in the stock market, do's and don'ts, etc. I thought this is the wrong direction to be pushing young people, but I suppose that if they aren't going to teach high schoolers more noble ways of investing their money, than they might as well do the best that they can with the culture/environment they are creating.
I dislike this sort of thing. There are teachers at some of the schools where I have worked who do the same thing.
The best lesson or principle about investing in the stock market is to avoid individual stocks to begin with. And invest in broad-based low-fee index funds. Teaching kids that they can actually pick winners and losers in the stock market based on their own "research" is frankly misinforming them in this day and age of algorithmic-based trading. Some of these kids will end up day-trading which is frankly no different than camping out in a Vegas casino.
I think the best way we can teach our kids about money is to force them to live on a budget and make hard-decisions about who to spend their limited funds. In retrospect, I don't think my two adult daughters really started to understand the value of money until it was their own hard-earned money they were spending and they could calibrate the cost of some expenditure by how many hours of work was required to purchase it.
1 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Ken wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2025 5:14 pm
I think the best way we can teach our kids about money is to force them to live on a budget and make hard-decisions about who to spend their limited funds.
That is a big one.
Recently I started listening/watching Dave Ramsey's podcasts (didn't know he had one!). He really drills down on budgeting and debt reduction. My wife and I are reorganizing our finances, especially taking a hard look at investments and retirement. I am about a month away from a big career change (same employer, just switching rolls) and want to have my ducks in a row first.
0 x
Formerly know as steve-in-kville
Hippie Anabaptist, husband, father & grandfather (recently!)
Semi-professional philosopher & poet.
Ken wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2025 5:14 pm
I think the best way we can teach our kids about money is to force them to live on a budget and make hard-decisions about who to spend their limited funds.
That is a big one.
Recently I started listening/watching Dave Ramsey's podcasts (didn't know he had one!). He really drills down on budgeting and debt reduction. My wife and I are reorganizing our finances, especially taking a hard look at investments and retirement. I am about a month away from a big career change (same employer, just switching rolls) and want to have my ducks in a row first.
Two words of advice:
Don’t take his advice about life insurance (esp buying it from his own brokerage)
Don’t invest in his high load mutual funds. If you do invest pick indexed with very low expense ratios and fees, like Vanguard or Fidelity funds.
Ken wrote: ↑Tue Feb 25, 2025 5:14 pm
I think the best way we can teach our kids about money is to force them to live on a budget and make hard-decisions about who to spend their limited funds.
That is a big one.
Recently I started listening/watching Dave Ramsey's podcasts (didn't know he had one!). He really drills down on budgeting and debt reduction. My wife and I are reorganizing our finances, especially taking a hard look at investments and retirement. I am about a month away from a big career change (same employer, just switching rolls) and want to have my ducks in a row first.
Two words of advice:
Don’t take his advice about life insurance (esp buying it from his own brokerage)
Don’t invest in his high load mutual funds. If you do invest pick indexed with very low expense ratios and fees, like Vanguard or Fidelity funds.
I don't think Ramsey owns either an insurance brokerage or an investment firm.
In either case, clients would spend a lot less just directly going to statefarm.com or progressive.com and shopping around, or getting their own Fidelity, Vanguard etc account instead of getting talked into high load mutual funds, expensive insurance they don't need, life insurance and so forth.
In either case, clients would spend a lot less just directly going to statefarm.com or progressive.com and shopping around, or getting their own Fidelity, Vanguard etc account instead of getting talked into high load mutual funds, expensive insurance they don't need, life insurance and so forth.
Correct. It's all referral programs. Even with the Zander Insurance, for which I'm sure Ramsey gets paid referral/commission fees. A friend of mine is a Thrivent rep, and he pays the fees to be one of the "Endorsed Local Providers" for investing. They also have to take training by the Ramsey organization in terms of coaching people according to Ramsey's financial principles. It's not a shady program as much as it is a marketing platform, where insurance and investing company's take advantage of Ramsey's brand and name recognition to attract customers. And yes, you may be able to save some money by just finding your own investment bank that you trust. What the ELPs are supposed to do is offer a little more than just your average investment bank that often is just a web app without any real personal contact.
In either case, clients would spend a lot less just directly going to statefarm.com or progressive.com and shopping around, or getting their own Fidelity, Vanguard etc account instead of getting talked into high load mutual funds, expensive insurance they don't need, life insurance and so forth.
Correct. It's all referral programs. Even with the Zander Insurance, for which I'm sure Ramsey gets paid referral/commission fees. A friend of mine is a Thrivent rep, and he pays the fees to be one of the "Endorsed Local Providers" for investing. They also have to take training by the Ramsey organization in terms of coaching people according to Ramsey's financial principles. It's not a shady program as much as it is a marketing platform, where insurance and investing company's take advantage of Ramsey's brand and name recognition to attract customers. And yes, you may be able to save some money by just finding your own investment bank that you trust. What the ELPs are supposed to do is offer a little more than just your average investment bank that often is just a web app without any real personal contact.
Wonder what the commissions are…
Don’t trust any financial planner unless you’re paying an upfront fee.
In either case, clients would spend a lot less just directly going to statefarm.com or progressive.com and shopping around, or getting their own Fidelity, Vanguard etc account instead of getting talked into high load mutual funds, expensive insurance they don't need, life insurance and so forth.
Ramsey also promotes an 8% withdrawal rate from retirement savings which most experts (and historical back-casting) suggests is WAY too high. People who do sophisticated Monte Carlo analysis (testing of thousands of historical scenarios) suggest that 4% is closer to the mark. Which means that people who follow his advice during any period of down-markets are likely to run out of money. And, alternatively, not save enough to begin with.
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
In either case, clients would spend a lot less just directly going to statefarm.com or progressive.com and shopping around, or getting their own Fidelity, Vanguard etc account instead of getting talked into high load mutual funds, expensive insurance they don't need, life insurance and so forth.
Ramsey also promotes an 8% withdrawal rate from retirement savings which most experts (and historical back-casting) suggests is WAY too high. People who do sophisticated Monte Carlo analysis (testing of thousands of historical scenarios) suggest that 4% is closer to the mark. Which means that people who follow his advice during any period of down-markets are likely to run out of money. And, alternatively, not save enough to begin with.
8% is a particularly bad combo with high load mutual funds, because you forfeit 5-8% of your starting principal to pay the salesman.
Everence calls me up every few months offering “free” employee 401ks in their garbage tier high load plans. I haven’t yet had the heart to tell them how I really feel.
In either case, clients would spend a lot less just directly going to statefarm.com or progressive.com and shopping around, or getting their own Fidelity, Vanguard etc account instead of getting talked into high load mutual funds, expensive insurance they don't need, life insurance and so forth.
Ramsey also promotes an 8% withdrawal rate from retirement savings which most experts (and historical back-casting) suggests is WAY too high. People who do sophisticated Monte Carlo analysis (testing of thousands of historical scenarios) suggest that 4% is closer to the mark. Which means that people who follow his advice during any period of down-markets are likely to run out of money. And, alternatively, not save enough to begin with.
8% is a particularly bad combo with high load mutual funds, because you forfeit 5-8% of your starting principal to pay the salesman.
Everence calls me up every few months offering “free” employee 401ks in their garbage tier high load plans. I haven’t yet had the heart to tell them how I really feel.
They are only "free" for the employer. Most definitely not "free" for the employees.
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
