West Coast Fire Thread

[R7ehr]

https://www.wsj.com/real-estate/luxury- ... s-8df6f3d9

As the fires ravaging Pacific Palisades expanded and started moving toward his home in the Malibu Hills last week, Brent Woodworth connected two 100-foot hoses to his personal fire hydrant and put one on each side of the driveway. 

When firefighters showed up, they used those hoses to save his home and the two next door, he says. The next day, when the hydrant’s water pressure dropped, he used a pump to take water from the swimming pool across the street so firefighters could continue hosing down the houses and fighting off embers. 
All three houses survived intact, in a neighborhood where approximately 80% of the homes burned, says Woodworth, chairman of the Los Angeles Emergency Preparedness Foundation.


…


Tensions have flared in Los Angeles over crews of private firefighters spotted battling blazes for well-heeled clients or, in more cases, protecting properties with specific coverage on behalf of insurance companies.  

But there is also another set of private citizens helping out, with the backing of the city. 

In Rosenbloom’s Malibu neighborhood of Corral Canyon, Matt Haines, who developed what he calls the Hainy Hydrant—a riser, pipe and gated valve—is part of a local community fire brigade that organized a 24/7 neighborhood patrol after the wildfires started to make sure that the hydrants were ready to go and that no new fires were starting anywhere. They kept the neighborhood’s some 500 residents updated using special walkie-talkie-like devices. 

On Saturday night, Haines was notified by a neighbor that a fire had started. Brigade members were able to get there and put it out within three minutes and keep the fire from spreading, he says.

“It gives a sense of comfort to our community,” says Haines, who is a home builder and an on-call firefighter. Along with 40 Hainy Hydrants that have been installed, the brigade has also organized pumps at six home swimming pools in case the utility water feeding the hydrants runs out. 

Keegan Gibbs came up with the idea for a community brigade after his parents’ house in Point Dume, Calif., burned down in the Woolsey fire in 2018. Gibbs and Woodworth, the chairman of the Emergency Preparedness Foundation, co-founded the official program in 2023 after a five-year process of getting it approved by county officials. Community fire brigades are set up in seven areas in the Santa Monica Mountains: County Line, Malibu West, Point Dume, Corral Canyon, Big Rock, Topanga Canyon and Hidden Hills.

During the current wildfires, the community brigades have been helping to catch embers and spot fires before they grow and going door-to-door to get people to evacuate, says Gibbs. 

Drew Smith, assistant fire chief for the L.A. County Fire Department, says the role of the brigades is to help with evacuations, communications and initial damage assessments; to put out small fires if they are able to handle it; and to educate people on how to make their homes more fireproof. They aren’t deployed to defend homes in advancing fire fronts, he says. 

[R7ehr]

https://www.wsj.com/us-news/fires-armed ... s-a40de302

In the still-smoldering neighborhoods of Altadena, where fires destroyed more than 2,700 structures, about 80 people have defied orders to evacuate, staying behind to protect what is left of their properties from looters and more fires after losing faith in authorities.

Residents patrol streets and interrogate strangers, living in a Hobbesian world without electricity or clean drinking water. Some are armed. They are hemmed in by yellow caution tape at neighborhood entrances flanked by National Guard troops, Los Angeles County Sheriff deputies and California Highway Patrol officers.

“We do feel like we’re in the Wild West,” said Aaron Lubeley, a 53-year-old lawyer who is one of the holdouts and serves as an unofficial emissary with police and fire representatives. 
If Lubeley and the others try to leave, they risk being unable to return. On Monday, one of Lubeley’s friends, Janely Sandoval, delivered essentials.

…

Police and fire officials say they are keeping residents from returning to burned neighborhoods because of such hazards as downed power lines and precarious fire-weakened trees. “Do not go back in there. Do not sneak in there,” said Brian Rice, president of the California Professional Firefighters union. “It’s not worth losing your life over.”

The message isn’t getting across to everyone.
Pacific Palisades resident Ross Gerber, president of a wealth-management firm, is among those who have been sneaking past police to check on his house, official edicts be damned. “I have no patience for any of them,” he said. “After you survive this, you don’t care what they say.”

…

Gerber joined with neighbors to hire a private water truck and driver to sit by their empty homes in case of another fire outbreak. The water truck was initially blocked from entering the neighborhood by law-enforcement officers. 
“So we called somebody who was very important who called Gavin Newsom and told him to let our water truck into our neighborhood,” Gerber said. 

…

When hot embers had rained down last week, igniting lawns and trees, the neighbors who refused to evacuate stomped out spot fires all night to preserve as many homes as possible. “If I had stayed and saved my house, I could have saved three of my neighbors’” houses, he said.

…

On Sunday, officials ended those home checks. “People are saying: ‘I just want to go to my house and see what’s left,’” Los Angeles County Sheriff Robert Luna said Monday at a news conference. “We know that, but we have people literally looking for the remains of your neighbors.”

“I get that they’ll say this is ‘the rule,’ but it’s our land and our neighborhood and as much as I respect the authorities, we’re much more competent than them,” Gerber said. “Let us in to defend our neighborhood.”

Gerber and his neighbors have turned to their community WhatsApp, which had been used largely to air minor gripes about traffic and such. Now, it is an organizing tool, he said, “better than any government.”

He had long been skeptical of the system, he said, but the fires further showed him that communities need to be prepared to fend for themselves.

After this disaster is over, Gerber said, he hopes the neighborhood will build “our own fire-like militia.”

In a major disaster, the emergency responders aren’t going to be there for you. They are way too overwhelmed, overextended, and their priorities are not to help you or protect your property.

[JohnH]

in other words... volunteer fire depts, and local fire depts accountable to local groups of people.

[R7ehr]

in other words... volunteer fire depts, and local fire depts accountable to local groups of people.

Exactly!

[JohnH]

in other words... volunteer fire depts, and local fire depts accountable to local groups of people.

Exactly!

interesting how people tell us the cost of fire protection is much higher in rural areas…

Mutual aid for my house is $30/year and includes fire. And I have a wood stove. Local FD is volunteer

Meanwhile in California it’s difficult to get fire insurance at all.

[R7ehr]

Our is mixed, largely professional, with volunteers.
When my neighbors house burned this summer, the fire department came. But they focused on methodically setting up their toys, establishing a perimeter, not getting too close, safety first, safety second, safety and procedure third through ninety-ninth. Then finally let’s spray some water. All the while, the fire grows, water is not getting sprayed.

There was no sense of urgency on display. Which was in direct contrast to the time saving gimmicks they spend thousands on.
Of course the house was a complete loss. In the end, the fire departments results were no different than if they hadn’t come at all. The house completely burned to the ground.

[JohnH]

Our is mixed, largely professional, with volunteers.
When my neighbors house burned this summer, the fire department came. But they focused on methodically setting up their toys, establishing a perimeter, not getting too close, safety first, safety second, safety and procedure third through ninety-ninth. Then finally let’s spray some water. All the while, the fire grows, water is not getting sprayed.

There was no sense of urgency on display. Which was in direct contrast to the time saving gimmicks they spend thousands on.
Of course the house was a complete loss. In the end, the fire departments results were no different than if they hadn’t come at all. The house completely burned to the ground.

is their main focus on making sure it doesn’t spread plus rescuing anyone trapped inside?

[R7ehr]

Our is mixed, largely professional, with volunteers.
When my neighbors house burned this summer, the fire department came. But they focused on methodically setting up their toys, establishing a perimeter, not getting too close, safety first, safety second, safety and procedure third through ninety-ninth. Then finally let’s spray some water. All the while, the fire grows, water is not getting sprayed.

There was no sense of urgency on display. Which was in direct contrast to the time saving gimmicks they spend thousands on.
Of course the house was a complete loss. In the end, the fire departments results were no different than if they hadn’t come at all. The house completely burned to the ground.

is their main focus on making sure it doesn’t spread plus rescuing anyone trapped inside?

I don’t know for sure. But that seems to make sense. Although I can’t imagine how their safety first protocol would actually rescue anyone inside the house. Maybe they would rescue someone, but I’d hate to count on them to save anyone. It is risk, and they are allergic to risk by the looks of things.

So the taxpaying public pays for firehouses, firemen, fire trucks, training, etc. And then we end up needing to rely on ourselves and our own equipment anyway.
Such is life in a soft coddled society, whose chief concern is insulating itself from harm and danger.

[JohnH]

Our is mixed, largely professional, with volunteers.
When my neighbors house burned this summer, the fire department came. But they focused on methodically setting up their toys, establishing a perimeter, not getting too close, safety first, safety second, safety and procedure third through ninety-ninth. Then finally let’s spray some water. All the while, the fire grows, water is not getting sprayed.

There was no sense of urgency on display. Which was in direct contrast to the time saving gimmicks they spend thousands on.
Of course the house was a complete loss. In the end, the fire departments results were no different than if they hadn’t come at all. The house completely burned to the ground.

is their main focus on making sure it doesn’t spread plus rescuing anyone trapped inside?

I don’t know for sure. But that seems to make sense. Although I can’t imagine how their safety first protocol would actually rescue anyone inside the house. Maybe they would rescue someone, but I’d hate to count on them to save anyone. It is risk, and they are allergic to risk by the looks of things.

So the taxpaying public pays for firehouses, firemen, fire trucks, training, etc. And then we end up needing to rely on ourselves and our own equipment anyway.
Such is life in a soft coddled society, whose chief concern is insulating itself from harm and danger.

I’ve noticed government services and big corporations seem very risk averse. Makes me wonder what the point of paying for all of this is for, if they won’t ever actually help you, but only protect themselves.

[Jazman]

is their main focus on making sure it doesn’t spread plus rescuing anyone trapped inside?

I don’t know for sure. But that seems to make sense. Although I can’t imagine how their safety first protocol would actually rescue anyone inside the house. Maybe they would rescue someone, but I’d hate to count on them to save anyone. It is risk, and they are allergic to risk by the looks of things.

So the taxpaying public pays for firehouses, firemen, fire trucks, training, etc. And then we end up needing to rely on ourselves and our own equipment anyway.
Such is life in a soft coddled society, whose chief concern is insulating itself from harm and danger.

I’ve noticed government services and big corporations seem very risk averse. Makes me wonder what the point of paying for all of this is for, if they won’t ever actually help you, but only protect themselves.

Seems the insurance industry, broadly speaking, either set itself up for this mentality... or has drifted into it in many areas. (Healthcare another one of course) Not sure what to do about it...