What are your thoughts on alternatives to military service if drafted?

Christian ethics and theology with an Anabaptist perspective

What would you be willing to do if drafted for service, and were not deferred for other reasons?

I would pay a fine to avoid service.
10
20%
I would hire a substitute to avoid service.
1
2%
I would refuse to serve, and also refuse to pay fines or hire a substitute.
2
4%
I would refuse to serve, but would do alternative service that did not directly contribute to military violence (i.e. agricultural labor camp).
21
43%
I would refuse to serve, but would work for the military effort (i.e. in a munitions factory).
0
No votes
I would go to prison before serving in the military.
10
20%
I would serve in the military as a noncombatant.
3
6%
I would serve in the military in any role.
2
4%
 
Total votes: 49

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Theophilos
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Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:51 am
Affiliation: Anabaptist-Mennonite

Re: What are your thoughts on alternatives to military service if drafted?

Post by Theophilos »

JohnH wrote: ↑Wed Dec 18, 2024 6:44 am The draft is a very serious problem that both Ukrainian and Russian Christian’s are facing.
Russian Christians are lucky that they have a working alternative service system. Some running into a problem if they were active duty before becoming a Christian, the worst case I heard one was sent to a remote settlement, which is not a prison, but a half-way house style life (driving a car, working at prescribed factory) but with restrictions. When the armed conflict started, and many young people were afraid of a possible draft, the authorities just let these people leave the country. Good number of those who left returned already.

The Ukrainians are in a much worse situation:

viewtopic.php?p=253328

In general, the draft in Ukraine is a total mess. When the armed conflict started, all men from age 18 to 60 were prohibited to leave Ukraine. Only handicapped men and fathers of 3 or more children were allowed to leave. That is how most of Christian families managed to leave Ukraine (they generally have a bigger family like Anabaptist folks in the US). But if you have only 2 or fewer children, you are out of luck in Ukraine.

Men of draft age (from 27 to 50, average age of a solder is 43) are being hunted on the streets by Ukrainian police and military draft office. There are tons of video of that manhunt. Very brutal. The medical fitness test is abused by the military authorities, and handicapped and mentally ill men are being drafted and sent to the battle lines. There were videos of such men being captured, which shocked even the opposite side, because they are obviously unfit for any service.

Many men (not only young) illegally cross the border to Moldova, Romania, Slovakia, Poland, Hungary and even Belarus and Russia to avoid the draft. They hike through the mountains, dirt biking through using the trails, kayaking, swim across the rivers, scuba dive, use skiffs on the sea, cross country skiing etc. There are a number of YouTube channels where they share their stories and give advice on how to prepare and where to cross. There is a joke that Mr. Zelenskyy is the best promoter of extreme tourism. Unfortunately, some of the fugitives died while crossing, some were killed, some were captured by the border guard.

The Ukrainian border is the best protected border in the western hemisphere. They use helicopters, drones, thermal vision cameras, etc. EU provide equipment to guard it better from the draft dodgers:


Those who managed to escape so far were granted protection by the neighbouring states, but they generally move to the countries away from Ukraine border (like Norway, Spain, Germany, even North America) to make it harder being returned in the future if the situation change. My son knows personally a Christian young fellow who fled Ukraine that way.
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mike
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Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2024 7:32 am
Affiliation: HMF

Re: What are your thoughts on alternatives to military service if drafted?

Post by mike »

Theophilos wrote: ↑Sat Dec 28, 2024 9:25 am Many men (not only young) illegally cross the border to Moldova, Romania, Slovakia, Poland, Hungary and even Belarus and Russia to avoid the draft. They hike through the mountains, dirt biking through using the trails, kayaking, swim across the rivers, scuba dive, use skiffs on the sea, cross country skiing etc. There are a number of YouTube channels where they share their stories and give advice on how to prepare and where to cross. There is a joke that Mr. Zelenskyy is the best promoter of extreme tourism. Unfortunately, some of the fugitives died while crossing, some were killed, some were captured by the border guard.
I have met numerous truck drivers in the last couple years who were new Ukrainian immigrants to the US. I asked a couple of them how they could leave the country during the war and they just said it is basically through the country's corruption. I assume they meant that with enough money or by knowing the right people they could avoid the draft and leave the country.
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Theophilos
Posts: 190
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:51 am
Affiliation: Anabaptist-Mennonite

Re: What are your thoughts on alternatives to military service if drafted?

Post by Theophilos »

mike wrote: ↑Sat Dec 28, 2024 10:03 am I have met numerous truck drivers in the last couple years who were new Ukrainian immigrants to the US. I asked a couple of them how they could leave the country during the war and they just said it is basically through the country's corruption. I assume they meant that with enough money or by knowing the right people they could avoid the draft and leave the country.
It is quite pricey (several thousands dollars, which is a lot of money in Ukraine) and no guarantee. Often times people lose both their money and freedom, that is why most draft dodgers now trying to cross the border secretly from the border guard on their own or in groups of two or three. I'm following their success (and fail) stories on almost daily basis. It is quite impressive survival skills and methods they developed and share with others to get through the new iron curtain to freedom from violence.

There are a number of YouTube channels, you can watch their stories with English subtitles enabled:

https://www.youtube.com/@eurocustom

https://www.youtube.com/@Alex18-60

https://www.youtube.com/@Serega_Khorol

Very educational.

Western media finally started acknowledging both corruption and forced recruitment, but it reality it is much bigger.

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