Learning to Read the Bible as a Seeker

[redoyja]

Thanks Ernie. I relly appreciate you taking the time to write and post this. Including the umconnected people around me is something i have been thinking a lot about lately.

[Valerie]

Thank you Ernie. I’ve often thought about people reading the Bible without upbringing in a church- your heart just goes out to them trying to know what would be applicable today vs what was meant “for all time”.

It was really challenging for myself having read the Bible most of my life & taught interpretations by pastors I sat under, to then be introduced to Anabaptism & being a seeker to it for a length of time.

When I started covering my head in my 50s it was very painful the way some of my sisters in the Lord treated me. One even yanked it off my head at work and said “Valerie, we are free!” Some sisters distanced. We since left the Charismatic/Pentecost type churches (well over 10 years ago).

When you are listening to pastors from formal educations, you assume their explanations for passages are backed by historical knowledge. The explanation I heard for 1 Corinthians 11 made sense if you listened to them. I mean you know there are customs during that time none of us practice so we trust educated pastors- then learn you shouldn’t necessarily.

It’s good you bring this up.

[Praxis+Theodicy]

Hey Ernie. Thanks a ton for this. Terrific stuff. Your talk about the "comfort" of a pastor making excuses and the "relief" that comes from not having to hold yourself to Jesus' teaching is all too real. I really appreciate the point of view of a new believer.

[JohnL]

The End

I've really enjoyed these studies Ernie. Great lessons.

[JohnL]

Ernie I have a question for you about the divorce teachings. Before I ask I'll say I agree with what the Bible teaches on divorce. How do we as a Christian people handle the situation where a divorced and remarried person comes to Jesus and wants to join a believers' church? How can we help them?

[Praxis+Theodicy]

Ernie I have a question for you about the divorce teachings. Before I ask I'll say I agree with what the Bible teaches on divorce. How do we as a Christian people handle the situation where a divorced and remarried person comes to Jesus and wants to join a believers' church? How can we help them?

Same question. I have often pondered planting a church in my town instead of travelling. I've been forming relationships with my neighbors since I started following Jesus. But some of the people who would be most keen on listening and possibly repenting and turning to Jesus are in their second marriage. Strong, healthy couples and it would be so hard for them to seperate. It would feel wrong, evil, a bitter and unjust action to seperate. It's so hard because I believe their life in sin includes an adulterous relationship, but it "feels" like a greater evil to seperate than to stay together.

[mike]

Ernie I have a question for you about the divorce teachings. Before I ask I'll say I agree with what the Bible teaches on divorce. How do we as a Christian people handle the situation where a divorced and remarried person comes to Jesus and wants to join a believers' church? How can we help them?

Same question. I have often pondered planting a church in my town instead of travelling. I've been forming relationships with my neighbors since I started following Jesus. But some of the people who would be most keen on listening and possibly repenting and turning to Jesus are in their second marriage. Strong, healthy couples and it would be so hard for them to seperate. It would feel wrong, evil, a bitter and unjust action to seperate. It's so hard because I believe their life in sin includes an adulterous relationship, but it "feels" like a greater evil to seperate than to stay together.

This is one of the greatest headwinds for non-Anabaptist folks joining the church, or for Anabaptists looking to welcome cultural outsiders into our churches. It's a bitterly painful topic for many of us, because we have been faced this issue for years. You can't really hold to the conservative Anabaptist position on divorce & remarriage without calling these sorts of marriages to separate. If you don't, you basically no longer hold to the permanence of marriage view.

It is an extremely hard and sad thing to navigate, and it's one of the primary reasons even many Anabaptist mission churches remain ethnically and culturally homogenous. People will change their core beliefs & values, change their dress and lifestyle, and many other things, but will almost never be willing to take the step of separating a marriage, even one that they have come to believe is wrong. And I can understand the extreme difficulty of their position. It is truly tragic, particularly if there are children.

[JohnL]

Ernie I have a question for you about the divorce teachings. Before I ask I'll say I agree with what the Bible teaches on divorce. How do we as a Christian people handle the situation where a divorced and remarried person comes to Jesus and wants to join a believers' church? How can we help them?

Same question. I have often pondered planting a church in my town instead of travelling. I've been forming relationships with my neighbors since I started following Jesus. But some of the people who would be most keen on listening and possibly repenting and turning to Jesus are in their second marriage. Strong, healthy couples and it would be so hard for them to seperate. It would feel wrong, evil, a bitter and unjust action to seperate. It's so hard because I believe their life in sin includes an adulterous relationship, but it "feels" like a greater evil to seperate than to stay together.

This is one of the greatest headwinds for non-Anabaptist folks joining the church, or for Anabaptists looking to welcome cultural outsiders into our churches. It's a bitterly painful topic for many of us, because we have been faced this issue for years. You can't really hold to the conservative Anabaptist position on divorce & remarriage without calling these sorts of marriages to separate. If you don't, you basically no longer hold to the permanence of marriage view.

It is an extremely hard and sad thing to navigate, and it's one of the primary reasons even many Anabaptist mission churches remain ethnically and culturally homogenous. People will change their core beliefs & values, change their dress and lifestyle, and many other things, but will almost never be willing to take the step of separating a marriage, even one that they have come to believe is wrong. And I can understand the extreme difficulty of their position. It is truly tragic, particularly if there are children.

It's a head scratching prayer need for sure. Catholic friends of mine tell me that Matthew 19:9 is used to support their practice of annulment but their members have to go through a tribunal of sorts to determine if an annulment can be granted or not. With so many divorced and remarried people these days I think there needs to be an outreach program or something to address it. I know that teaching the children and teens the value of careful courtship and careful choices of a future spouse could probably help future generations. I'm just not sure where to begin to develop one for those already in the d&r state.

[barnhart]

Ernie I have a question for you about the divorce teachings. Before I ask I'll say I agree with what the Bible teaches on divorce. How do we as a Christian people handle the situation where a divorced and remarried person comes to Jesus and wants to join a believers' church? How can we help them?

Same question. I have often pondered planting a church in my town instead of travelling. I've been forming relationships with my neighbors since I started following Jesus. But some of the people who would be most keen on listening and possibly repenting and turning to Jesus are in their second marriage. Strong, healthy couples and it would be so hard for them to seperate. It would feel wrong, evil, a bitter and unjust action to seperate. It's so hard because I believe their life in sin includes an adulterous relationship, but it "feels" like a greater evil to seperate than to stay together.

This is one of the greatest headwinds for non-Anabaptist folks joining the church, or for Anabaptists looking to welcome cultural outsiders into our churches. It's a bitterly painful topic for many of us, because we have been faced this issue for years. You can't really hold to the conservative Anabaptist position on divorce & remarriage without calling these sorts of marriages to separate. If you don't, you basically no longer hold to the permanence of marriage view.

It is an extremely hard and sad thing to navigate, and it's one of the primary reasons even many Anabaptist mission churches remain ethnically and culturally homogenous. People will change their core beliefs & values, change their dress and lifestyle, and many other things, but will almost never be willing to take the step of separating a marriage, even one that they have come to believe is wrong. And I can understand the extreme difficulty of their position. It is truly tragic, particularly if there are children.

This has been true in my lifetime, but looking at history it doesn't seem that holding to purity and idealism around sexuality and marriage has always been something that turns people away. The early church grew radically within the Roman empire partly because of their restrictive, disciplined practice and as recently as 150 years ago the general culture in the US was discouraged around this to the point that abstinence groups like the Shakers were growing. In both these examples the church was able to "re-enchant" marriage by offering a practice and theology that supports the mystical/spiritual element of marriage.

When the mystery is stripped away, marriage and sexuality fall into base categories like power/dominance or pleasure/contractual/transactional. These experiences fail to nurture the human soul and that is when the culture will look for something else.

Edit: On second thought, this post should be moved out of this thread. I don't want to wreck Ernie's thoughts .