What are your thoughts on alternatives to military service if drafted?

[Ken]

There's been some discussion of the pros and cons of serving as a medic, or in other noncombatant roles. What about being a chaplain in the armed forces?

Chaplains are commissioned military officers. As such they must be college graduates with a graduate degree or masters degree in theology or religious studies. They are generally also expected to be ordained clergy in the particular faith that they are representing in the army. So a Catholic chaplain would be expected to be an ordained priest. A Lutheran chaplain would be expected to be an ordained Lutheran minister. A Jewish chaplain would be expected to be an ordained rabbi, and so forth. Otherwise you would be unable to conduct services and rites according to your faith. I would expect those two criteria would eliminate that route for many young men who are neither college graduates with advanced degrees in theology, nor ordained priests, ministers, rabbis, imams, etc. and don't particularly want to be.

Chaplains are also required to be ecumenical and not proselytize for their particular faith. So you if you are a chaplain you are forbidden from treating the military as your personal mission field with the aim of saving souls or converting soldiers to your faith or denomination. Ordinary soldiers do not face this prohibition. So if you are a person who feels compelled to proselytize inside the military then you should not be a chaplain but serve in the military in some other role.

[JohnH]

There's been some discussion of the pros and cons of serving as a medic, or in other noncombatant roles. What about being a chaplain in the armed forces?

Chaplains are commissioned military officers. As such they must be college graduates with a graduate degree or masters degree in theology or religious studies. They are generally also expected to be ordained clergy in the particular faith that they are representing in the army. So a Catholic chaplain would be expected to be an ordained priest. A Lutheran chaplain would be expected to be an ordained Lutheran minister. A Jewish chaplain would be expected to be an ordained rabbi, and so forth. Otherwise you would be unable to conduct services and rites according to your faith. I would expect those two criteria would eliminate that route for many young men who are neither college graduates with advanced degrees in theology, nor ordained priests, ministers, rabbis, imams, etc. and don't particularly want to be.

Chaplains are also required to be ecumenical and not proselytize for their particular faith. So you if you are a chaplain you are forbidden from treating the military as your personal mission field with the aim of saving souls or converting soldiers to your faith or denomination. Ordinary soldiers do not face this prohibition. So if you are a person who feels compelled to proselytize inside the military then you should not be a chaplain but serve in the military in some other role.

Sounds like no Amish or Mennonites would be military chaplains then… we don’t do masters degrees or seminary and we believe it is our duty to spread and share the gospel, just like the U.S. government thinks it is its duty to spread bombs and share bloodshed

[ohio jones]

we don’t do masters degrees or seminary

Maybe the Holdemans don't, but there are other Mennos who do.

[Ken]

There's been some discussion of the pros and cons of serving as a medic, or in other noncombatant roles. What about being a chaplain in the armed forces?

Chaplains are commissioned military officers. As such they must be college graduates with a graduate degree or masters degree in theology or religious studies. They are generally also expected to be ordained clergy in the particular faith that they are representing in the army. So a Catholic chaplain would be expected to be an ordained priest. A Lutheran chaplain would be expected to be an ordained Lutheran minister. A Jewish chaplain would be expected to be an ordained rabbi, and so forth. Otherwise you would be unable to conduct services and rites according to your faith. I would expect those two criteria would eliminate that route for many young men who are neither college graduates with advanced degrees in theology, nor ordained priests, ministers, rabbis, imams, etc. and don't particularly want to be.

Chaplains are also required to be ecumenical and not proselytize for their particular faith. So you if you are a chaplain you are forbidden from treating the military as your personal mission field with the aim of saving souls or converting soldiers to your faith or denomination. Ordinary soldiers do not face this prohibition. So if you are a person who feels compelled to proselytize inside the military then you should not be a chaplain but serve in the military in some other role.

Sounds like no Amish or Mennonites would be military chaplains then… we don’t do masters degrees or seminary and we believe it is our duty to spread and share the gospel, just like the U.S. government thinks it is its duty to spread bombs and share bloodshed

My father is a retired Mennonite minister. He has two masters degrees.

[Judas Maccabeus]

You did not include "flee" in your poll.

I have ancestors who fled conscription into the Confederate army. Some stayed local but hid in caves or burrows under their houses, others paid for substitutes and several, at least three, conformed to conscription and marched in the army with a pledge to never fire.

Of note, after the battle of Antietam, there were muskets found, that had been loaded as many as 10 times. Never fired. Someone must have just been going through the notions, but never actually firing at his fellow man.

Running away was sometimes referred to as “Skedaddeling.” That word became a thing for my 8th graders.

[Judas Maccabeus]

The only uniform I would wear is the Salvation Army.

[Judas Maccabeus]

we don’t do masters degrees or seminary

Maybe the Holdemans don't, but there are other Mennos who do.

Mostly of a more liberal persuasion. I did about a year of grad school, and I generally avoid mentioning it. I know no conservative Mennonite minister with a seminary background. Since we use nomination/the lot, it would help you very little in groups I interface with.

Does the Rosedale connection still use the lot, or ministers called as in Protestant circles?

[Judas Maccabeus]

What is the purpose of the military?
Is the person who builds the guided missiles less valuable to the war effort than the man on the front lines who calls out the coordinates for the missile strike?

So then Mennonites and others should not have voluntarily fed soldiers and taken care of wounded soldiers throughout our storied past? Weren't they helping the war?
And what about being forced to feed soldiers and care for wounded soldiers? Wasn't that helping the war?
....

This was at the center of the sometimes heated discussions in the colonies, in the early 1860's, as "the writing was on the wall" regarding the almost certain loss of the privilegium offered to Dutch Mennonites in Prussia a century or so earlier, to convince them to move to the new Russian territory (Ukraine). My impression is that most felt that offering medical care for the soldiers was an act of compassion that fell within the command of Jesus, when he told his listeners to "go the second mile" for a Roman soldier. (And also, the commands of the Law as handed to Moses directly from God, to show compassion and help even animals, on the Sabbath yet, too.) The Mennonites in Russia willingly offered medical care to everyone, but they "knew' that full military service might well be the next step, and it was, for those who stayed.

If a man was seriously wounded while committing murder, should we offer medical care? I think so. Should we, through words of admonition urge the family of the victim not to kill the perpetrator? (I did that once, and I sure hope that it was not a grave sin.)

I will say that I have taken care, in my lifetime, of both the Crips and the Bloods after a gang fight. I also took care of the cop that shot them.

We do our best to take care of all who come under my care, without ever asking how they got there. Once they are seriously wounded, or are a prisoner, they are treated the same as any other. We don’t ask questions.

[barnhart]

Of note, after the battle of Antietam, there were muskets found, that had been loaded as many as 10 times. Never fired. Someone must have just been going through the notions, but never actually firing at his fellow man.

Refusal to kill was a serious problem through WW2, I read a book about it. By Vietnam they had shifted training to overcome the reticence to kill.

Stonewall Jackson remarked in a report about the race of Virginians from the great valley who could not be persuaded by any means to draw aim on a field of battle...

[Judas Maccabeus]

Of note, after the battle of Antietam, there were muskets found, that had been loaded as many as 10 times. Never fired. Someone must have just been going through the notions, but never actually firing at his fellow man.

Refusal to kill was a serious problem through WW2, I read a book about it. By Vietnam they had shifted training to overcome the reticence to kill.

Stonewall Jackson remarked in a report about the race of Virginians from the great valley who could not be persuaded by any means to draw aim on a field of battle...

Is that the one that begins with “There is a people in this valley…”