Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

Things that are not part of politics happening presently and how we approach or address it as Anabaptists.
temporal1
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

Post by temporal1 »

temporal1 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 7:28 am Super-stoked to read this. A parting gift for the incoming administration?

Biden approves Ukraine’s use of long-range U.S. weapons inside Russia,
reversing policy

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... ea-atacms/

- - - - - - -

A reminder of some earlier discussions in this thread:

Jeffrey Sachs - How the US Provoked the Invasion of Ukraine / -11min
https://www.youtube

Robert wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2024 11:19 am Georgia and Crimea were not NATO countries and were invaded by Russia. So Ukraine is not the one country. This does show a pattern of expansionism. Some my be "justified" because lines were not drawn correctly. Some is because Russia is taking what it wants or feels it needs. I think the leadership are still working with some of a superpower mentality.

:arrow: I think the way past that is working with them instead of fighting them.
This keeps them from partnering with places like China and North Korea.
Robert,
i place your point under the heading, DIPLOMACY, the lack of which which has been mentioned in this topic,
Jeffrey Sachs gets into it in this video: (At about 8min, JS refers to JFK and the Cuban missile crisis) .. DIPLOMACY ..

Jeffrey Sachs - America's Foreign Policy Is Disastrous / -15min


At 20:00 mark below,
my lively young college-educated voting conservative military-age virtual friends (they believe they are Christians) -
discuss biden’s policy reversal:

CartierFamily / DANA WHITE & TRUMP DESTROY LIBERAL MEDIA! / 24min


Personally .. i doubt Putin will fall for it, we can hope Z will pass.

The appearance (to me) is biden is a belligerent low-grade man who is attempting to sabotage the incoming administration -
regardless of consequences. A beyond chilling thought.

Pray for Putin and Z to (consider the source) and use restraint.
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Szdfan
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

Post by Szdfan »

Jeffrey Sachs has appeared on a Russian propaganda talk show hosted by Vladimir Solovyov, who has called for the Russsian military to destroy Ukrainian cities and nuke NATO countries.

Below is an open letter to Sachs signed by 340 economists disagreeing with his position on the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
https://web.archive.org/web/20230806172 ... raine-war/

They disagree with him on the following positions —

Pattern #1: Denying the agency of Ukraine
The Euromaidan had nothing to do with NATO, nor the US. Initial protest was sparked by Viktor Yanukovych’s decision not to sign the European Union-Ukraine Association Agreement, despite said agreement passing the Ukrainian Parliament with an overwhelming majority and enjoying broad support among the Ukrainian population. Yanukovych’s regime’s choice to respond by brutally beating peaceful protesters (mostly students) on the night of November 30, 2013, only further alienated the population and intensified the protests. After the adoption of a set of laws forbidding the freedom of press and assembly (commonly termed the “dictatorship laws”) by Yanukovych in January 2014, the Euromaidan turned into a broader movement against government abuse of power and corruption, police brutality, and human rights violation – which we now refer to as the Revolution of Dignity. Ukraine’s accession to NATO was never a goal of this movement. Hence, your attempts to trace the beginning of the war to “NATO” are historically inaccurate. Furthermore, treating Ukraine as a pawn on the US geo-political chessboard is a slap in the face to millions of Ukrainians who risked their lives during the Revolution of Dignity.
Pattern #2: NATO provoked Russia
We want to alert you to a few facts. In 1939, it was the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany that invaded Poland. In 1940, it was the Soviet Union that invaded the Baltic countries. In 1940, it was the Soviet Union that annexed parts of Romania. In 1956, it was the Soviet Union that invaded Hungary. In 1968, it was the Soviet Union that invaded Czechoslovakia. Poland, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Romania, Hungary or Czechoslovakia did not invade Russia or the Soviet Union. No threat emanated from these countries. But these countries were attacked by the USSR/Russia. This is why these countries wanted to join NATO. Since joining NATO, none of these countries have been attacked by Russia again.
Pattern #3: Denying Ukraine’s sovereign integrity
We wish to remind you that Russia’s annexation of Crimea in 2014 has violated the Budapest memorandum (in which it promised to respect and protect Ukrainian borders, including Crimea), the Treaty on Friendship, Partnership and Cooperation (which Russia signed with Ukraine in 1997 with the same promises), and, according to the order of the UN International Court of Justice, it violated international law.
Pattern #4: Pushing forward Kremlin’s peace plans
Based on what evidence do you trust a serial warmonger, who has stated on multiple occasions that Ukraine does not exist, to be satisfied with Crimea and Donbas and not try to occupy the entire country?
Pattern #5. Presenting Ukraine as a divided country
Recent polls show that irrespective of language or location, Ukrainians overwhelmingly (80%) reject territorial concessions to Russia. Polls also show that 85 percent of Ukrainians identify themselves above all as citizens of Ukraine, as opposed to residents of their region, representatives of an ethnic minority, or some other identifier. This is hardly possible in a divided country.
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Grace
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

Post by Grace »

The Biden/Harris administration or their handlers are in a hurry to bring on World War III before Trump can be inaugurated. It almost seems like the administration wants dump WWW III on Trump, then attempt to blame him.

On Sunday, the Biden/Harris administration approved Ukraine’s use of US-made long-range missiles to strike deep inside Russia.
The Biden/Harris approved antipersonnel land mines for Ukraine – undoing their previous policy. This will cost many more lives, (as if that mattered to this culture of death administration).

There seems to be something evil about a lame duck administration leaving the next administration with a possible World War. A World War with the possibility of nuclear conflict, by allowing Ukraine, a proxy state of the United States, to strike within Russia. The Biden administration or whoever’s acting in their name, knows fully well there are huge risks by these actions, and lives will be lost, but they simply don’t seem to care.

They seem only intent on risking escalation with one of the world’s largest superpower and nuclear power, just to make it difficult for the next president. A president that the American people voted for and wanted. But I am sure in their arrogance, they don’t care about the “garbage” voters who voted for the next president, nor do they care about the lives that will be lost.
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R7ehr
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

Post by R7ehr »

I’ve had those same thoughts.
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mike
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

Post by mike »

That or both sides basically know the war is on a timer at this point, and they want to wrap up before Trump's inauguration in the best possible bargaining position.
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Szdfan
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

Post by Szdfan »

mike wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2024 10:08 am That or both sides basically know the war is on a timer at this point, and they want to wrap up before Trump's inauguration in the best possible bargaining position.
I think this is correct. Russia had already escalated the war by bringing in 10,000 North Korean troops to push the Ukrainians out of the Kursk Oblast. The Ukrainians want to hang on to Kursk to retain a better bargaining position. Each side is trying to have the best hand for negotiations.
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Ken
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

Post by Ken »

Grace wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2024 9:59 am The Biden/Harris administration or their handlers are in a hurry to bring on World War III before Trump can be inaugurated. It almost seems like the administration wants dump WWW III on Trump, then attempt to blame him.
Putin already started WW3 when he chose to invade Ukraine and act in a noxious manner around the rest of the world, interfering in elections and such.

The only real question at this point is how it all ends, and what lessons the rest of the world draws from the outcome.

I think the most important long-term lesson most smaller countries will draw is that when push comes to shove, international accords and treaties are useless. And the only sure way to protect your independence in the face of a larger and aggressive neighbor is nuclear arms. I expect nuclear proliferation to accelerate in the wake of this war, with Iran, Saudi Arabia, Ukraine, and Taiwan being the most logical countries to build their own nuclear arsenals but with a lot of other countries to soon follow. The peace proposals I have seen put forth by Trump and Putin almost certainly guarantee that Ukraine will seek nuclear weapons.

I think that will be a much less safe world than the alternative.
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temporal1
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

Post by temporal1 »

mike wrote: ↑Thu Nov 21, 2024 10:08 am That or both sides basically know the war is on a timer at this point, and they want to wrap up before Trump's inauguration in the best possible bargaining position.
The profiteers loathe the mere idea of DJT putting an end to a war that should not have begun.
Their intolerance of him and his effective avoidance of military conflict is plain.

Profiteers were banking on 4 more years. $$$$

With appearance of effortlessness, he makes fools of them. That’s literally dangerous.
Men are killed for far less.

Will DJT be nominated for the Peace Prize, Abraham Accords, altho delayed?
Will he earn another nomination?
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temporal1
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

Post by temporal1 »

Robert wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2024 10:38 am
HondurasKeiser wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2024 10:32 am
Robert wrote: ↑Wed Nov 27, 2024 6:23 pm They are very pro war. I do not like that.
Is that the definition of paleo-conservativism?
Nope. Just part of it. I do not like their philosophy of US interventionalism.
They are too tied to the Military Industrial Complex for my likes.
Robert wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2024 9:52 am
barnhart wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2024 9:48 am
Robert wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2024 9:41 am Check their views on Ukraine. That will tell you a lot.
I think it will tell me they hold a place for international treaty and do not advocate Isolationism. If this is the definition of "quite pro- war", they do seem to hold these positions.
I think anyone that supports the Ukraine war is pro war. The Ukraine war could have easily been stopped before it ever happened, butt he US did not want Ukraine to negotiate. The US topped an elected leader because they did not like him. Anyone who supports the US efforts in Ukraine are pro war.

There were treaties available and the US would not let them happen.
:cry:
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i’m perfectly comfortable with an older, wiser, more docile Trump.

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Neto
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Re: Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

Post by Neto »

The more I see in the news about this war, the more I am reminded of the Holodomor, when the USSR (Stalin era) caused the worsening of a natural disaster (drought) to create a famine, and to pursue the elimination of an entire people group, the Ukrainians. (Or, perhaps more accaretely, to "empty Ukraine of its citizens, whether Ukrainian or other ethnic groups who were not wanted by the Soviets.)

This is really starting to look like genocide - death by freezing.

Others were saying this long ago (Jan 25, 2023):
November also marked the 90th anniversary of the Holodomor, the deliberately engineered famine that’s estimated to have killed about 3.9 million Ukrainians living under Soviet rule between 1932-33. As Chicago’s Ukrainian community prepared for an event at Chicago’s Water Tower in remembrance of the atrocity, Ukrainian leadership reported that Russia’s strikes on infrastructure had damaged more than 50 percent of Ukraine’s energy facilities. It’s not hard to find parallels between 90 years ago and today.

“This was a deliberate genocide that happened in order to wipe Ukrainians off the face of the Earth,” Bandriwsky said. “Now, 90 years later, almost to the day, we’re seeing a different type of genocide. We see genocide by freezing and basically causing massive death and destruction to people.”
Reference:
https://chicagoreader.com/news-politics ... scale-war/
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