Elon Musk. Twitter. Babylon Bee.

[Ken]

I didn't have a real clear picture of who Musk is until he bought Twitter. But I appreciate his message. Taxpayers are footing a lot of unnecessary subsidies and pork barrel projects. It's been repeatedly talked about how these subsidies are supporting companies that give money to politicians. That whole Obamacare mess was deeply involved with Kaiser Permanente that Pelosi's family is involved in. "Delete it."

Elon and his companies have pocketed many billions of dollars (with a B) in government subsidies in the past decade or so.

He has probably personally benefitted more from federal subsidies than any single person in America. And he was one of the largest political donors in the past election if not the single largest one.

So the notion that he is the person to tackle federal subsidies is laughable on its face.

His real message is that ordinary Americans need to tighten their belts so that billionaires like him can get more tax cuts.

[Robert]

Elon and his companies have pocketed many billions of dollars (with a B) in government subsidies in the past decade or so.

He is advocating to get rid of them. He has spoken about this several times.

[Ken]

Elon and his companies have pocketed many billions of dollars (with a B) in government subsidies in the past decade or so.

He is advocating to get rid of them. He has spoken about this several times.

He has talked about getting rid of the purchasing subsidies for American-made EVs because he thinks that will allow Tesla to maintain its head start over other American-manufactured EVs. But none of that money goes into Tesla's pockets. It goes to the car buyers. And he thinks it will hurt other car manufacturers more. And it is only a tiny fraction of the total amount of government subsidies that Elon pockets.

The billions of dollars of subsidies I'm talking about are direct money into Elon's pockets. He has a lots of lavish sole-source contracts with the government for SpaceX and Starlink. His boring company has pocketed a bunch of different local government subsidies and not done anything. And Tesla itself has made about 40% of its profits through government carbon credits not car sales. He isn't talking about getting rid of ANY of that. Only the one program designed to generate a more robust and diverse American car industry in the fact of Chinese competition that would help his American competitors. Tesla is actually as much of a Chinese company as an American one. I think he makes and sells more cars in China than the US. Long term what will earn Tesla the most money is to build cars in China and sell them in the US. Which is probably the long-term plan and would mean immense profits for Tesla at the expense of American workers and industry.

[Robert]

[Ken]

Talk is cheap. Elon also promised self-driving cars were just a year away.....way back in 2013.

We will see if his DOGE actually proposes getting rid of all fossil fuel subsidies. More importantly if they actually do it. Which I would certainly support. Most of which are not actual government handouts, but all kind of favorable treatment in the tax code or regulations. All combined they total about a trillion dollars per year.

[R7ehr]

Talk is cheap. Elon also promised self-driving cars were just a year away.....way back in 2013.

We will see if his DOGE actually proposes getting rid of all fossil fuel subsidies. More importantly if they actually do it. Which I would certainly support. Most of which are not actual government handouts, but all kind of favorable treatment in the tax code or regulations. All combined they total about a trillion dollars per year.

I agree that favorable treatment in the tax code, is not the same as actual government handouts.

[Ken]

Talk is cheap. Elon also promised self-driving cars were just a year away.....way back in 2013.

We will see if his DOGE actually proposes getting rid of all fossil fuel subsidies. More importantly if they actually do it. Which I would certainly support. Most of which are not actual government handouts, but all kind of favorable treatment in the tax code or regulations. All combined they total about a trillion dollars per year.

I agree that favorable treatment in the tax code, is not the same as actual government handouts.

It may not be a "handout" by whatever definition you are using. But targeted tax breaks (and other regulatory advantages) are certainly the main vehicle by which Congress subsidizes the fossil fuel industry. And tax targeted tax breaks are commonly labeled as "handouts" or "subsidies" by both Republicans and Democrats in Congress. So it is the actual language that they use. For example, here is one of hundreds of possible examples I could provide in which that language is used: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/15/clim ... =url-share

[R7ehr]

Talk is cheap. Elon also promised self-driving cars were just a year away.....way back in 2013.

We will see if his DOGE actually proposes getting rid of all fossil fuel subsidies. More importantly if they actually do it. Which I would certainly support. Most of which are not actual government handouts, but all kind of favorable treatment in the tax code or regulations. All combined they total about a trillion dollars per year.

I agree that favorable treatment in the tax code, is not the same as actual government handouts.

It may not be a "handout" by whatever definition you are using. But targeted tax breaks (and other regulatory advantages) are certainly the main vehicle by which Congress subsidizes the fossil fuel industry. And tax targeted tax breaks are commonly labeled as "handouts" or "subsidies" by both Republicans and Democrats in Congress. So it is the actual language that they use.

This is what it looks like to argue with yourself.

[barnhart]

Talk is cheap. Elon also promised self-driving cars were just a year away.....way back in 2013.

We will see if his DOGE actually proposes getting rid of all fossil fuel subsidies. More importantly if they actually do it. Which I would certainly support. Most of which are not actual government handouts, but all kind of favorable treatment in the tax code or regulations. All combined they total about a trillion dollars per year.

I agree that favorable treatment in the tax code, is not the same as actual government handouts.

Usually they seem similar to my eye.
Example: If I work my entire life for wages, I will be taxed for Social Security on my entire earnings but if I am a trust fund baby and live on investment money, I will be taxed at a significantly lower rate. Why shouldn't I think of that as a handout for the rich.

[JohnH]

Talk is cheap. Elon also promised self-driving cars were just a year away.....way back in 2013.

We will see if his DOGE actually proposes getting rid of all fossil fuel subsidies. More importantly if they actually do it. Which I would certainly support. Most of which are not actual government handouts, but all kind of favorable treatment in the tax code or regulations. All combined they total about a trillion dollars per year.

I agree that favorable treatment in the tax code, is not the same as actual government handouts.

Usually they seem similar to my eye.
Example: If I work my entire life for wages, I will be taxed for Social Security on my entire earnings but if I am a trust fund baby and live on investment money, I will be taxed at a significantly lower rate. Why shouldn't I think of that as a handout for the rich.

Social Security tax rate is 14.1% - 15.3% (roughly). Also you aren't taxed on your "entire earnings", it stops around $160,000.

Someone who has several kids, for an example, and makes an amount such as, say, $30,000, does indeed get hand outs. They get paid more money from the government than they are required to pay in taxes. So the person getting the "hand out" is indeed the lower earner

Capital Gains is 15%, unless you really make a lot of money, then it goes up to 20%. There is no cap.

Hard to see how that's a hand out...