joshuabgood wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 1:58 pm
I get what you are saying...but the word "perfect" in today's language means utopian. I don't ascribe a sacred/mysticism to the text itself. And I don't think it is perfect. We have translations of transcriptions at best. There are very clearly portions of text, two of which I cited upstream, that both "conservative" and "liberal" scholars alike agree were not likely part of the original texts. We have differing translations.
To many Muslims, the fact that there are textual differences is proof that our Bible is flawed. And even some Christians can't deal with that, insisting that only one text type is valid.
I don't think these textual differences change anything in our faith, I don't think they make the text unreliable. But if it is an "error" to have two versions, and no way of knowing for sure which is right, that's our reality.
Several inerrancy statements get around that by saying the Bible is inerrant "in the original autographs". But we don't have those. And even if we did ... when Paul wrote to the Galatians and kept a copy to duplicate and send to other churches, which copy was the original autograph? Or was it the wax tablet that they wrote on before writing it on parchment?
1 x
1. Are we discussing the topic? Good.
2. Are we going around and around in a fight? Let's stop doing that.
3. Is there some serious wrongdoing or relational injury? Let's address that, probably not in public and certainly not for show.
joshuabgood wrote: ↑Thu Oct 31, 2024 10:18 pm
I would frame it differently. God had been revealed primarily through the incarnate son. The scriptures are a reliable written record of that revelation, but not the revelation itself. The scriptures are not sufficient for the Revelation of God or Jesus need not have come in the flesh.
How do you know Jesus came?
Isn’t there evidence of Jesus outside of the Bible?
Yes. But in my view those sources could be subject to scrutiny and are not authoritative. I would put a difference between "the Bible" and sources outside the Bible.
Maybe you could educate me on some of the outside sources you are referring to?
I would also add that, to me, the Bible isn't just about Jesus. There are other themes referenced in the Bible storyline and Jesus is the one who fulfills these themes but He is not the only theme. If I'm making sense?...I feel like I've said "themes" alot...but I think it important to see the whole picture of what the Bible is saying as it pertains to the full plan of God.
Perhaps the instances where Jesus "changes" the law especially His "...You have heard it said, but I say unto you" statements in the Sermon on the Mount could be understood to show the deeper application of the law as foretold in Jeremiah 31:33 for example....
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Silentreader wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 3:15 pm
Perhaps the instances where Jesus "changes" the law especially His "...You have heard it said, but I say unto you" statements in the Sermon on the Mount could be understood to show the deeper application of the law as foretold in Jeremiah 31:33 for example....
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
1. Are we discussing the topic? Good.
2. Are we going around and around in a fight? Let's stop doing that.
3. Is there some serious wrongdoing or relational injury? Let's address that, probably not in public and certainly not for show.
Do I want to follow Jesus? Yes. Do I fail sometimes. Yes!!!
How do I get closer to Jesus?
I find when I spend time in God's word... I end up closer to Jesus that day... He feels nearer...
When I have not cracked open my Bible in a while... devotions are slipping... realize I left it at home on the way to church... Jesus starts to feel far away!
So why don't we just recognize the BIBLE is our foundation, it is sharper than a two edge sword, quick, powerful, and will even judge our attitudes and hearts! If we want to follow God we need to crack open our Bibles and read them! Not Fox News, not the Internet, not even an inspirational devotional book, but the BIBLE!
The Bible doesn’t advocate to the Father on our behalf, the Bible doesn’t forgive sins, the Bible didn’t die for us. And in Heaven we won’t be living forever in the presence of the Bible.
The Bible contains truth and knowledge and the Gospel. It informs us of God and how God wants us to live.
R7ehr wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 6:42 pm
The Bible doesn’t advocate to the Father on our behalf, the Bible doesn’t forgive sins, the Bible didn’t die for us. And in Heaven we won’t be living forever in the presence of the Bible.
The Bible contains truth and knowledge and the Gospel. It informs us of God and how God wants us to live.
So, everything you just referenced is in the Bible, but if it needs to be said, then of course the physical Bible (ink and paper) didn't die for me.
But are you implying that I'm making the Bible an idol if I use it in worship now? Or if I claim it to be Gods Word (all OT and NT) am I some how committing idolatry?
I guess I'm just trying to understand where the line is for you all when you separate Jesus from the Bible.
Will there be Bibles in heaven?? I believe in heaven.. God himself will be reading the Bible to us.. and it will still be GOD'S WORD... forever unchanging for eternity and alive!
JohnH wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 8:04 pm
Will there be Bibles in heaven?? I believe in heaven.. God himself will be reading the Bible to us.. and it will still be GOD'S WORD... forever unchanging for eternity and alive!
I guess it could be. But I don’t believe we will have the Bible there. I think at that point it’s purpose would have been fulfilled.
I don’t think the Bible claims it will be in heaven.