Living with different views on voting

[Bootstrap]

Let me confront an elephant in the room. I think that some plain Anabaptists believe that they are the better Christians, and that their applications of Scripture prove that. They believe - and sometimes teach - that if you really want to follow Jesus, you will do it their way, and by doing it their way (in obedience to Jesus), you will come to see that it is the truth.

I don’t think I’m a better Christian than other Christians, including ones in worldly or apostate churches.

I do think my congregation’s practice is better than, say, the Episcopalian church downtown or the United Methodist church up the street (the only one left that didn’t switch to Global Methodist). I’m not being proud or arrogant when I say that.

Sure. And I wasn't saying ALL plain Anabaptists are like that, but I do think SOME are.

Like you, I think that on voting and some other things, my study of Scripture and other things convinces me that my practice is better, at least for me. So how do we get along in the Body of Christ, despite different practices and applications and interpretations of Scripture.

My great aunt was a faithful United Methodist dating back to when the denomination was called other things and I think she led a more godly and Christian life than I have, or do. That’s me just calling it like I see it.

I see good Christians in many denominations. If we Seek First the Kingdom of God, I think we have to open our eyes to a Kingdom of God that is bigger than any of our little corners of the Kingdom.

Unfortunately I think the UMC is in apostasy now though and is in danger of leading many astray. I don’t think my church is apostate.

In the present day, I think MC USA and most of its congregations have fallen into apostasy. I respect some, like Virginia Conference churches who have taken a stand against some of this apostasy.

As you know, I am a member of one of those churches.

Boot, I really don’t know where you want us to go with this.

I mostly want to discuss the subject - how we deal with differences in voting practices in the Kingdom of God. And I hope that we can all do that without doing what SOME do, as described in the first paragraph.

[Josh]

At a fundamental level, plain Anabaptists don’t believe they can live with “different views” on certain key issues and still have close fellowship.

We can have distant fellowship. I can feel comfortable with some interactions with them and involvement in institutions. But we can’t very close, and we don’t want to run around condemning people.

[GaryK]

At a fundamental level, plain Anabaptists don’t believe they can live with “different views” on certain key issues and still have close fellowship.

We can have distant fellowship. I can feel comfortable with some interactions with them and involvement in institutions. But we can’t very close, and we don’t want to run around condemning people.

I agree. I will add that the many plain Anabaptists who believe they should not vote, believe that there are objective NT truths that guide their belief in this matter.

[Josh]

At a fundamental level, plain Anabaptists don’t believe they can live with “different views” on certain key issues and still have close fellowship.

We can have distant fellowship. I can feel comfortable with some interactions with them and involvement in institutions. But we can’t very close, and we don’t want to run around condemning people.

I agree. I will add that the many plain Anabaptists who believe they should not vote, believe that there are objective NT truths that guide their belief in this matter.

Likewise, you can hold political views but we expect church members not to make politics central to their personality.

[Bootstrap]

At a fundamental level, plain Anabaptists don’t believe they can live with “different views” on certain key issues and still have close fellowship.

We can have distant fellowship. I can feel comfortable with some interactions with them and involvement in institutions. But we can’t very close, and we don’t want to run around condemning people.

I agree. I will add that the many plain Anabaptists who believe they should not vote, believe that there are objective NT truths that guide their belief in this matter.

Sure. But I think the topic is really about living with different views on voting in a place like MennoNet, which is not close fellowship, and which is not exclusively plain Anabaptists.

Where we may have different opinions about what the NT actually teaches. Based on careful attention to the text, and trying to be faithful.

[Josh]

Sure. But I think the topic is really about living with different views on voting in a place like MennoNet, which is not close fellowship, and which is not exclusively plain Anabaptists.

Where we may have different opinions about what the NT actually teaches. Based on careful attention to the text, and trying to be faithful.

We do think we pay careful attention to the text and try to be faithful to the NT.

[Bootstrap]

Sure. But I think the topic is really about living with different views on voting in a place like MennoNet, which is not close fellowship, and which is not exclusively plain Anabaptists.

Where we may have different opinions about what the NT actually teaches. Based on careful attention to the text, and trying to be faithful.

We do think we pay careful attention to the text and try to be faithful to the NT.

Sure. We each think we do. And on both sides, we might think the other side is missing something important.

So how do we live with that on a forum like MennoNet? I think the best approach is to draw each other out by looking at the text carefully, and to do so in a spirit of love and curiosity. Assuming that we might not convince each other, but we can at least try to understand each other.

[Jazman]

Does anyone here believe that to vote or not to vote to be a sin issue ? And if it is a sin issue, if someone makes the wrong choice will they lose their salvation over it ? If it is not regarded as a salvation issue, is it a personal conviction issue ? If it is a personal conviction issue should we be trying to convince other believers that our conviction must be their conviction ?

Seems to me this gets into what Romans 14 is talking about with regard to us judging each other's convictions and we are told in this text not to do that. Instead whether I vote or not vote is probably something this text says to keep to myself.

One of my observations, not to try to get agreement , is that ever since the scriptures have been made accessible to the masses (about a century ago) that those who claim to be Christians, are more in disagreement about what these scriptures say and instruct us to live than ever before. This having the scriptures at anyone's finger tips has not resulted in a oneness of belief but rather has split Christianity more than it ever was in the past and it seems that some groups are more into splitting than others. Sometimes it can be over an issue as simple as voting.

So if I chose to vote or not, it is a matter of personal conviction and I best not try to push my convictions on others or I will be sinning to what Romans 14 is saying to do. If it really concerns me of other's choice, I can take them to the Lord in prayer. Thats what I am choising to go with as I believe what I should or should not do is primarily a matter of what the Holy Spirit living within guides me to follow.

You're getting at some of the roots... I would like to know the answers to these questions too. I think it would reveal why some approach it the way they do.

[Ernie]

You're getting at some of the roots... I would like to know the answers to these questions too. I think it would reveal why some approach it the way they do.

Jazman, can you say more about what you are wondering?

[eccentric_rambler]

Perhaps I missed it, but I haven't seen Daniel 4:17 mentioned yet.

This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men. 

It is Old Testament but most non-voting groups I have been around would point to it as a reason or the primary reason not to vote. The expressed reasoning is something like "If God sets up who he wants I can trust His power, I don't need to be involved. Also, if I vote I run the risk of voting against the one God intends."

I suspect some people who do vote interpret this logic as bordering on or crossing into fatalism. Those who don't vote see it as a matter of faith that God works behind the scenes allowing to rule "whomsoever He will".