Living with different views on voting

[Bootstrap]

Here's a proposal I have made. I'm removing some of the reasoning I gave for it originally since it bothered some people.

If we did the following, would it improve MN? What do you think?

I'd propose the following:

• For those who feel voting is permitted, don't urge people to vote, respect those who disagree, don't tell people who to vote for. Let your decision to vote, and who you vote for, be between you and God.
• For those who think voting is idolatry, don't categorize people by how you think they just might vote, don't speculate about their voting, don't keep bringing the subject up and hounding someone you know does vote.
• For both, focus on what we have in common. And Seek First the Kingdom of God. Together.

[Josh]

No.

If it’s 1933, I think it would be right to speak up against voting for Hitler.

And in any case, Boot, you aren’t the self-appointed commissar of MN who makes rules for everyone else after no consensus has been reached on what those rule should be. I think people should be free to speak their minds. This is not some kind of censored leftist “safe space”.

[RZehr]

Here's a proposal I have made. I'm removing some of the reasoning I gave for it originally since it bothered some people.

If we did the following, would it improve MN? What do you think?

I'd propose the following:

• For those who feel voting is permitted, don't urge people to vote, respect those who disagree, don't tell people who to vote for. Let your decision to vote, and who you vote for, be between you and God.
• For those who think voting is idolatry, don't categorize people by how you think they just might vote, don't speculate about their voting, don't keep bringing the subject up and hounding someone you know does vote.
• For both, focus on what we have in common. And Seek First the Kingdom of God. Together.

3. Those who don’t vote, but don’t think it is idolatry either, are free to argue against voting because idolatry is not the only reason against voting.

[Bootstrap]

Here's a proposal I have made. I'm removing some of the reasoning I gave for it originally since it bothered some people.

If we did the following, would it improve MN? What do you think?

I'd propose the following:

• For those who feel voting is permitted, don't urge people to vote, respect those who disagree, don't tell people who to vote for. Let your decision to vote, and who you vote for, be between you and God.
• For those who think voting is idolatry, don't categorize people by how you think they just might vote, don't speculate about their voting, don't keep bringing the subject up and hounding someone you know does vote.
• For both, focus on what we have in common. And Seek First the Kingdom of God. Together.

3. Those who don’t vote, but don’t think it is idolatry either, are free to argue against voting because idolatry is not the only reason against voting.

Thanks - let me take idolatry out of it and add a point for discussion. Better?

• For those who feel voting is permitted, don't urge people to vote, respect those who disagree, don't tell people who to vote for. Let your decision to vote, and who you vote for, be between you and God.
• For those who think voting is wrong, don't categorize people by how you think they just might vote, don't speculate about their voting, don't keep bringing the subject up and hounding someone you know does vote.
• Everyone should feel free to have threads specifically on how we apply the Bible to voting or not voting.
• For both, focus on what we have in common. And Seek First the Kingdom of God. Together.

[Josh]

For those who think voting is wrong, don't categorize people by how you think they just might vote, don't speculate about their voting, don't keep bringing the subject up and hounding someone you know does vote.

If we think voting is wrong… why would you expect us to be silent about it?

I think voting for Hitler is wrong. If someone is constantly talking about the evils of Hitler’s opponents, and also makes it clear they do vote… it’s reasonable to speculate they may indeed be planning to vote for Hitler.

If something thinks voting is OK, they should feel confident saying whom they’re voting for. I’m not sure why you think it needs to be a big secret. Make it clear which candidates and issues you support.

[ken_sylvania]

I propose the following:
For everyone
* Embrace the opportunity for a spirited discussion.
* Discuss issues respectfully. Give the other person the benefit of the doubt
* Do not try to shut down others' opinions by a drumbeat of accusations that they are violating forum rules
* Welcome probing questions from others and assume they are asked in good faith. Respond to them respectfully
* If you never see any inconsistencies in your own position then you are probably not thinking very clearly. Welcome the opportunity to discuss inconsistencies. It's how you can learn.

For those who believe it is OK to vote
* Feel free to explain your position and the underlying rationale. You may convince someone on the merits of your argument
* You don't need to say who you voted for, but don't use the "privacy" of your vote as a way to weasel out of a tight spot in the argument. If you're ashamed of who you voted for just say so. You might find it takes the wind out of your opponent's sails.
* Don't demand that other people vote or that they vote for your preferred candidate
* It's OK to explain why you think a particular candidate is better than another, but discuss it rather than preach it. Even some who don't vote find it interesting to discuss the pros and cons of government policy and decisions

For those who believe it is not OK to vote
* Feel free to explain your position and the underlying rationale. You may convince someone on the merits of your argument
* It's OK to ask someone who they voted for and why, but if they decline to answer it would be respectful to not push the issue. It's not necessarily fair to hold someone's prior actions against them.
* Don't assume that someone who votes is doing so against their better judgment. Don't treat them as a pariah just because they vote.
* If your practice is to avoid voting because it constitutes engagement with the kingdom of this world, remember that even non-voters can find themselves ensnared in this world's issues. Be alert to avoid that trap.

[Ken]

Bootstrap. You have a tendency to want to police other people’s comments.

When it comes to voting. About 1/3 of eligible Americans choose not to vote. That is over 80 million people. There is no requirement to vote and people are free to vote or not vote for whatever reason they want, or for no reason at all.

Personally I find it incongruous for someone to hold strong political views and engage in constant political discussion but choose not to vote. But people are inconsistent about a lot of things in life. I’m sure I have my own inconsistencies too. We all do. So….shrug.

Likewise, people hold lots of strong religious convictions and beliefs that are going to come out on a forum such as this where both religion and politics are discussed. People’s religious views on voting aren’t anything unique that require calling out for policing. How is having a religious view on voting any different from having a religious view on another political topic like LGBT rights?

Disagree with people and explain why you disagree if you feel compelled. That is what public forums are for. But don’t be so eager to police the boundaries of discussion. Especially when it come to viewpoints that are not your own.

[Ernie]

I propose the following:
For everyone
* Embrace the opportunity for a spirited discussion.
* Discuss issues respectfully. Give the other person the benefit of the doubt
* Do not try to shut down others' opinions by a drumbeat of accusations that they are violating forum rules
* Welcome probing questions from others and assume they are asked in good faith. Respond to them respectfully
* If you never see any inconsistencies in your own position then you are probably not thinking very clearly. Welcome the opportunity to discuss inconsistencies. It's how you can learn.

For those who believe it is OK to vote
* Feel free to explain your position and the underlying rationale. You may convince someone on the merits of your argument
* You don't need to say who you voted for, but don't use the "privacy" of your vote as a way to weasel out of a tight spot in the argument. If you're ashamed of who you voted for just say so. You might find it takes the wind out of your opponent's sails.
* Don't demand that other people vote or that they vote for your preferred candidate
* It's OK to explain why you think a particular candidate is better than another, but discuss it rather than preach it. Even some who don't vote find it interesting to discuss the pros and cons of government policy and decisions

For those who believe it is not OK to vote
* Feel free to explain your position and the underlying rationale. You may convince someone on the merits of your argument
* It's OK to ask someone who they voted for and why, but if they decline to answer it would be respectful to not push the issue. It's not necessarily fair to hold someone's prior actions against them.
* Don't assume that someone who votes is doing so against their better judgment. Don't treat them as a pariah just because they vote.
* If your practice is to avoid voting because it constitutes engagement with the kingdom of this world, remember that even non-voters can find themselves ensnared in this world's issues. Be alert to avoid that trap.

MN is one of the few places where I vote.

[Robert]

I propose the following:
For everyone
* Embrace the opportunity for a spirited discussion.
* Discuss issues respectfully. Give the other person the benefit of the doubt
* Do not try to shut down others' opinions by a drumbeat of accusations that they are violating forum rules
* Welcome probing questions from others and assume they are asked in good faith. Respond to them respectfully
* If you never see any inconsistencies in your own position then you are probably not thinking very clearly. Welcome the opportunity to discuss inconsistencies. It's how you can learn.

If there were something like Forum Guidelines that said basically this, that would be great. Oh. Nevermind.

Bootstrap brings up some good ideas for himself. Ken_s brings up some good guidelines for himself also. Josh has some good guidelines for himself.

I have some good guidelines for myself.

On this subject, it might be best to lead by example, not by word. I have been posting less about politics myself. I still enjoy watching it, but feel less inclined to share. Seems others are less inclined to see it as I do, so I do not see the need to create more conflict in my life right now.

[Robert]

MN is one of the few places where I vote.

Shall we take a poll on the evils of polling?