Has America's culture of "wokeness" effected the Anabaptists?

[Szdfan]

The Nazis. I don't think the Nazis began with good intentions.

You don't think the Nazis had some good intentions at the beginning?

They sought political power like any other political party. And as such worked to gain the favor of the constituencies of whose support they were seeking. Intentions are a hard thing to pin down. But they certainly did a lot of things that were intended to generate political support. Like reducing crime and instability, bringing back jobs, reducing inflation, etc. Were those good things on their own when taken in isolation? Or where they just part of a cynical plan to take power and implement other more sinister objectives? Probably a combination of both.

I think Hitler was very clear in "Mein Kampf" what his intentions were. I don't think the non-metaphorical annihilation of your political enemies -- real and perceived -- is a good intention.

I don't think that the Nazis started out with good intentions and then -- whoops! -- World War II and the Holocaust accidentally happened. Hitler was clear about the justifications that led to WWII and the genocide from the very beginning. These things were deliberate, not accidents.

[Szdfan]

You don't think the Nazis had some good intentions at the beginning?

They sought political power like any other political party. And as such worked to gain the favor of the constituencies of whose support they were seeking. Intentions are a hard thing to pin down. But they certainly did a lot of things that were intended to generate political support. Like reducing crime and instability, bringing back jobs, reducing inflation, etc. Were those good things on their own when taken in isolation? Or where they just part of a cynical plan to take power and implement other more sinister objectives? Probably a combination of both.

I think Hitler was very clear in "Mein Kampf" what his intentions were. I don't think the non-metaphorical annihilation of your political enemies -- real and perceived -- is a good intention.

I don't think that the Nazis started out with good intentions and then -- whoops! -- World War II and the Holocaust accidentally happened. Hitler was clear about the justifications that led to WWII and the genocide from the very beginning. These things were deliberate, not accidents.

I guess whether someone thinks the Nazis had good intentions depends on whether one thinks that the concept of German Lebensraum ('living space'), belief in the superiority of the "Aryan race" and the conspiracy theory fight against Marxist international Jewish finance count as good intentions.

[Ken]

You don't think the Nazis had some good intentions at the beginning?

They sought political power like any other political party. And as such worked to gain the favor of the constituencies of whose support they were seeking. Intentions are a hard thing to pin down. But they certainly did a lot of things that were intended to generate political support. Like reducing crime and instability, bringing back jobs, reducing inflation, etc. Were those good things on their own when taken in isolation? Or where they just part of a cynical plan to take power and implement other more sinister objectives? Probably a combination of both.

I think Hitler was very clear in "Mein Kampf" what his intentions were. I don't think the non-metaphorical annihilation of your political enemies -- real and perceived -- is a good intention.

I don't think that the Nazis started out with good intentions and then -- whoops! -- World War II and the Holocaust accidentally happened. Hitler was clear about the justifications that led to WWII and the genocide from the very beginning. These things were deliberate, not accidents.

I don't think we disagree.

I'm not saying that they started out with "good intentions". I'm saying that they started out with the intention to win power. And in the course of doing so did a lot of things that taken in isolation might be labeled "good".

I'm pushing back on the common notion among some on the right that the Nazis did lots of good things and then kind of unfortunately did the Holocaust too. They did exactly what every other group does that is seeking power. And that is pander to those whose support they were seeking. No group or party comes to power on a platform of "we are going to make things WORSE for you" And yes, there were no doubt many Nazis, especially in the early years, who thought they were doing good.

I’m trying to make a nuanced argument and probably not expressing it perfectly. And that is that intentions are not actually so important. Outcomes are. We know what the outcome was of the Nazis gaining power in Germany. And we can judge them on that.

[ken_sylvania]

And yes, there were no doubt many Nazis, especially in the early years, who thought they were doing good.

I think that is the point temp was trying to make.

[ken_sylvania]

American wokeness has not "effected" the Anabaptists, but it is "affecting" some of them.

[Josh]

You don't think the Nazis had some good intentions at the beginning?

They sought political power like any other political party. And as such worked to gain the favor of the constituencies of whose support they were seeking. Intentions are a hard thing to pin down. But they certainly did a lot of things that were intended to generate political support. Like reducing crime and instability, bringing back jobs, reducing inflation, etc. Were those good things on their own when taken in isolation? Or where they just part of a cynical plan to take power and implement other more sinister objectives? Probably a combination of both.

I think Hitler was very clear in "Mein Kampf" what his intentions were. I don't think the non-metaphorical annihilation of your political enemies -- real and perceived -- is a good intention.

I don't think that the Nazis started out with good intentions and then -- whoops! -- World War II and the Holocaust accidentally happened. Hitler was clear about the justifications that led to WWII and the genocide from the very beginning. These things were deliberate, not accidents.

Did Hitler found the Nazi party?

[mrbilliam]

Yes absolutely.

Women are to STAY SILENT IN CHURCH from speaking.

1 Corinthians 14:34
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

The Bible Speaks. Women should not speak in the church. Period. They don't teach, they don't comment, they don't share their testimony, they don't share their opinion.


Now watch the disagreements fly in. Wokeness definitely has affected the church.

[Soloist]

Yes absolutely.

Women are to STAY SILENT IN CHURCH from speaking.

1 Corinthians 14:34
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

The Bible Speaks. Women should not speak in the church. Period. They don't teach, they don't comment, they don't share their testimony, they don't share their opinion.


Now watch the disagreements fly in. Wokeness definitely has affected the church.

If you want talk about women speaking or not in church, why don’t you start a new topic?

[Josh]

Yes absolutely.

Women are to STAY SILENT IN CHURCH from speaking.

1 Corinthians 14:34
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

The Bible Speaks. Women should not speak in the church. Period. They don't teach, they don't comment, they don't share their testimony, they don't share their opinion.


Now watch the disagreements fly in. Wokeness definitely has affected the church.

Except when praying and prophesying of course. And if they can’t do that, perhaps they can also leave their coverings at home.

[HondurasKeiser]

I think this is true. We are experiencing a moment of insecurity and instability. When that happens, extremist views become more appealing to more people. I think we are facing the possibility of an extremist period in history and that is something that concerns me.

SZD, I’m genuinely curious if you’re concerned about extremism on the Left or if you only see the threat from the Right?